Wow!
Pablo Popovitch says:
1) gi is boring,
2) he doesn't like it,
3) it's a big transition for gi guys to go to no-gi (and vice versa),
4) gi and no-gi are completely different,
5) no-gi is a better sport, and
4) he loves no-gi, so he's just going to stay there.
Times are changing when such a high level gi guy of Brazilian origin would openly say this.
Starts at 2:19:
http://youtu.be/VYcYiotPDx8?t=2m18s
Haha Jack are you tap21 on Sherdog? This looks awfully familiar :)
Just replied to you on SD. Those were good comments, btw.
Times are definitely changing
Respect for him just being honest, telling how it is without politics
He only likes grabbing clothing and stalling in nogi, not gi lol
So I train 80% in the gi... only 1 day a week no gi. I know that both help each other... I feel like the gi has helped movement in open guard situations. Nogi also helps positional control. Its interesting how people say no gi is "faster"... to me its way more relaxed because you can't rage by holding crazy lapel/sleeve grips and just go nuts. You have to think about natural grips/leverage points and to me that slows it down and makes it more fluid. Nogi is more flowing to me, which I really really like.
I think he meant for himself and competing. In terms of teaching, his school offers 9 gi classes a week to only 3 no-gi. Is this true, Ericp?
http://youtu.be/u75QsVveW6g
Another Video on his views of No-Gi, footlocks and wrestling
Ok. So, how do I join this ninja club? :)
Only time I've ever seen Marcelo look genuinely pissed off was when Pablo Popovitch was grabbing and pulling his shorts and rash guard at ADCC 2009. Pablo is super talented but his style is a little dry and boring I think. Just as a fan
"Gi is an unrealistic form of grappling."Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericp
So amazing to hear a Brazilian BJJ guy saying this let alone a guy at the level of Popovitch.
I think he was a little upset when Ricco body slammed him too. 5:09 in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Nall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FklAOcNjIhk
Forgot about that too. I love that restart. Okay you wanna do that? Heel hook. never done one before or since then either.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotReady
:( I'm pretty sure Marcelo has cited that match as one of the reasons that he stopped doing absolutes after 2009. I think he said it hurt him more than he let on and that it did some long term damage.
Yeah I was just thinking that was the only time I have ever seen Marcelo do a leg lock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Nall
I think this match was 05 and then Drysdale was 07. Did he not do absolute again after that? Don't blame him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericp
Pablo is the man, if i cant make it to florida, im going to train with him next time he is in Montreal, i owe my brothers up there a visit.
Marcelo and Ricco was 2005 in Long Beach. I was at that one. You can't really tell in the video but the crowd was cheering Marcelo really hard and kind of booing Ricco from the start. The spectators were so one-sided, it kind of made you feel bad for Ricco. I think Ricco was a little taken aback by it, and just wanted to get the hell out of the stadium by the middle of the match. When he slammed Marcelo, it just got 100x worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotReady
His deep half style is money though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Nall
Haha. He made it worse for himself then. Sometimes you just gotta take your loss like a man. No need to be a poor sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hanley
Well, I still think that if Popovich is serious about what he said, and not seem like a hypocrite, then he needs to adjust his school's Gi versus No-gi offerings, which currently stand at 9 to 3 per week. That ratio is way too off, IMHO.
Well, there is always what you think vs what the market demands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
I'm sure most bars would prefer to highlight some craft IPA, but you can't not have Bud Light and Fireball up front and center.
^^That' s actually a really good analogy.
I think in the end, he loves money the most. :) Gi JJ is just more lucrative at this point. The gi costs a lot of money. There are more gi competitions. People are attracted to the traditional looking uniforms and the "Oss." The second most prestigious and achievable promotion is in the gi. So until no gi becomes more profitable for him, expect his school to keep pushing gi classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
Well, you just put it way better than me in one simple sentence. LMAO. Nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotReady
Haha, thanks everyone :)
Are the 10th Planet Moons doing that badly compared to other schools in their area?
He has a world class skill set in the gi. Why wouldn't he teach it to feed his family? There is a need in the market to be filled, he is filling it with his years of expertise and skill.
You don't HAVE to love everything about your job. It makes it way better if you do, but you don't have to. I'm willing to bet most of you guys don't love what you do for a living.
You ever wish you taught in GI, Brandon? Would it get more people in your gym?
I think they serve two different market segments, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
Just like there actually are brew pubs that mainly serve the smaller group who only want to buy fancy craft IPAs while there are regular bars that serve a wider more general audience that always have Fireball and Bud.
I don't know enough about the gi to comfortably teach in it and ask people to pay me for the knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
It would probably bring in more people, but I am not qualified to teach it and I just don't want to. I think it distorts the philosophy to offer both at a 10th Planet academy. I know we have others who wouldn't agree with that and that's fine. It's just how I feel.
But no, the 10th Planet school in our city is not struggling at all right now. Bigger than ever and growing every week.
Thanks. :)
What does one have to do with the other? My point is that Pablo could possibly lose money by leaning more toward no gi. Considering that he has already established his school as a gi primary school, why toy with it? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. While 10th planet schools aren't struggling, gi schools are growing faster than no gi schools. That should tell you about the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
On a side note, I was there to witness when Empire dropped the gi. I witnessed a piece of history. And as fate would have it, the empire grew bigger and badder than ever. So maybe if he brought in a badass striking coach and converted to an mma school (Empire already was an MMA school), maybe he would get MORE students and get to do more no gi.
It's been really interesting watching the fluctuation over the last decade or so in grappling. When I started in 2001-2002, it seemed like no-gi was really strong. Then in the second half of that decade, gi training grew and grew until it seemed like there were 100 gi guys for every no-gi guy. During that period, it got so bad I had even an American BJJ Black Belt publicly declaring things to me like "99% of no-gi guys ARE NOTHING compared to a decent gi purple belt" and "99% of [no-gi guys] are horrible compared to their gi trained counterparts". Even gyms like FFA and Jeremy Horn's were eventually forced to offer gi programs.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
Now 10th Planet is coming on super strong in competition and it seems like no-gi is starting to come back again. Ryan Hall is talking about how he is mainly aimed at no-gi and MMA right now. A guy on the level of Pablo Popovitch is saying that gi is boring and unrealistic. Josh Barnett is making people fear catch wrestling. Eddie destroyed Royler. Seems like things are finally swinging back.
It's cool these days to hear stories like the one about a gym like Rochester dropping the gi and thriving after doing so.
It really is a pretty simple and clear question. The argument was made that the market for gi is greater than no-gi. Ergo, if you are no-gi, are you hurting yourself. If the answer is no, then there is no reason not to move to no-gi. Thanks to B for answering.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
I still think there's an image problem of coming out with that video but having the 9/3 ratio. Smells hypocritical. What you're suggesting makes Popovitch sound like a sell out. He belives one thing but money gets him another. I don't think that's the way you want to paint him.
If you are purely no gi and not a MMA gym, I'd be willing to wager you're going to have hard time unless you are a 10th planet affiliate. I'd be very impressed if you could name 10 no gi jiu jitsu gyms that aren't 10th planet gyms or MMA gyms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
If you are no-gi, are you hurting yourself? The answer is no for some guys because they are phenomenal instructors and wise business men. But that's not counting how many 10th Planet schools have gone under or have jobs on the side to keep the business running. That's WITH brand recognition. While it's not 100% true that going no gi will hurt you, it's not 100% certain that going no gi will help you either. With the numbers the way they are, I would lean toward the idea that Popovitch would lose students and not necessarily gain new ones until the popularity of no gi matches the popularity of gi JJ. Some guys just love the gi. Keenan loves the gi. I practically guarantee if Atos became no gi only, he'd leave.
After visiting a few schools and seeing how the gi classes are packed and the no gi classes are bare, sometimes completely empty......I gotta say, Pablo isn't being a hypocrite. He's being a smart business man. Being a smart business man doesn't make you a sell out. It makes you a smart business man. He doesn't "believe in no gi." He prefers no gi. You can prefer one over the other while still teaching one more than the other. If I'm a chef, and I love sea urchin and foie gras, but most of my customers prefer beef, I'm going to have more beef options than anything. That's just smart business.
The numbers don't lie. No gi is gaining momentum, but the gi is still the larger market.
If I own a car dealership, and build my business around car sales, but I begin selling motorcycles, and I prefer motorcycles, why would I change my whole business to only motorcycles if I've already established my business as a car dealership? Harleys are more fun. Kia's are boring. But if you're selling more Kia's than Harleys.......
In Pablo's case, I'm positive that if he had more attendance for no gi, he would change it around, just like Empire did. Not enough guys were coming to gi judo. So the schedule was adjusted to cater to the demand.
I hope I'm not crossing the line like I speak for Herzog, but from our conversations, I know he loves his judo. He didn't pour his life into it for nothing. But he understood his student's needs/wants. People just weren't attending gi judo classes often enough, but the no gi JJ kept swelling. So things changed. And Coach ain't no sell out. But he is a damn smart business man.
Pablo didn't say in the interview that he hates the gi. He prefers no gi. Why change your business model to force students into your preference? That's not hypocritical. It's not selling out. It's simply smart business.
I disagree with Pablo.
Marcelo's most popular matches and rolls are almost always in the gi. Nogi is generally too swampy slow for the masses ;-)
I think the point of the video is that he likes competing No Gi and not Gi. Not that he wants to completely throw away the gi
This turned into a hate the gi free for all for some reason, instead of paying attention to what Popovitch said.
On that: I disagree with unequivocal claims, especially for claiming something through solely subjective means as "boredom." You have both exciting gi and nogi matches. This weekend at the NY Pro, both Lo/Keenan and the Miyao/Grippo matches were fucking awesome to watch. Let's not forget the Rafa/Clark Metamoris match either. On the other hand, you can claim the Lister/Barnett match was boring until the very end, as it was NOT a dynamic match, with one guy always on the bottom. ON the other hand, part 2, the Tonon/Dale match, with its constant movement and wicked ending was exciting to watch. It's just intellectually lazy to make unequivocal statements when so much of it is subjective and so many examples can be shown that disagrees with the premise.