Hierarchy of positions: the truck. Where is it slotted for most people?

I'm been studying and playing with it for a few weeks now. Really great, sooo many entries for it. But I'm having trouble "slotting" it into the hierarchy of positions. Where do you place it, if you do? Better than bottom side... obviously, but is it a position that is personal preference? Or do you teach it as "if you can get the back, get back mount, but if you can't get second hook in, go for truck -- but if second hook is there, don't do truck?" I'm not thinking of Geo Martinez in this, but the regular grappler who's learning it and its position among the hierarchy of positions.

All depends on preference. I like it better than the back personally. More options (twister, banana split, crotch ripper, calf slicer vs rnc and maybe an armbar off of the back), trickier to get out of, more unpredictable. I go for the back first in most cases, then transition to the truck if I'm struggling with the rear naked. But if a guy is turtled and keeping me from getting any hooks in, I'll stick my knee into his ribs, scoop his shin and rock him back into the truck. I forgot the name of that one :confused:?Most guys would probably still be more comfortable on the back and see the truck as an alternative, but once you're comfortable holding position in the truck, you fall in love with it

I think mechanically it's a lower body back control. Ryan hall talks about the position a lot but primarily as a means to expose the back without all the extra 10P style attacks. I guess everything is what you make of it, though. I know people who prefer to play guard than have top side control.

Hierarchy for the 10P system - as good or even favored over back control.

Hierarchy for you? However good you are at it vs another option.

Any favorable position is a good position.

Calf crank from the truck makes the top 3 most crucial subs in my personal game. Very little gas is needed to complete and when done correctly with the foot stomp very few can survive in my experience

It's the #1 place to get to for me, closely followed by Spider Web. Both of them are excellent control positions with a lot of attacking options where escaping is dangerous and difficult.
Flipping it around they're also the last places I want to be caught in. Given a choice I'd give up my back before the truck and I'd much rather have someone mount me than put me in spider web.

That's an excellent way to put it, Anthony. I'm still new to the position so I'm exploring its relationship a bit, but yes, I'd rather have my back (I think), too.

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Originally Posted by Aiseop

That's an excellent way to put it, Anthony. I'm still new to the position so I'm exploring its relationship a bit, but yes, I'd rather have my back (I think), too.

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That comes from something Frank talks about a lot - if someone does something to you/puts you in something that feels terrible/messes you up, he wants to learn it so he can do it to others. Once my technical appreciation had advanced enough that I got that I started to pay a lot more attention to those moments when I'm rolling, and I'll pick the brains of the guys who put me there later to see if it's something that fits with my game.

Another take is that while my game is probably more developed and dangerous when I've got someone in my rubber or closed guards and I probably get more finishes there in terms of raw numbers, thinking about rate/percentage I probably do better from spider web/the truck. Hope that makes sense!

From my observation, I do think it's a matter of preference based on your experience and skill level. For example, Gary Tonon uses twister rolls a lot but he uses it to go straight to the back. Geo Martinez, on the other hand, will snatch the truck from any angle available and finish from there often. My guess is that Geo just has more experience entering, attacking, and finishing from the truck, where Gary has found more success with the back.

Another example is Eddie Bravo and Marcelo Garcia. We all know when Eddie gets in twister side, he's going for twister side attacks. Marcelo uses reverse side control (very similar to twister side), but he uses it as a set up for the back.

The point I'm making as an observer is that it does ultimately come down to preference, but the truck is absolutely a beast of a position to get into. But, unless you're in a school that teaches the truck, or have partners that put in reps with you on the side, it's a bit of a pain to carve that path into your muscle memory. I'm guessing that's why the truck isn't more prominent. Because if more guys had truck reps, we'd see more of it.

If you're a competitor, I think it's a good idea to master truck entries just as much as you master the lockdown paths. Our 10th Planet guys hit so many electric chairs, old schools, etc, it's insane. Why? Because 90% of BJJ schools don't know it, don't teach it, and still preach that 10th planet doesn't work. Same with the truck. Granted, you don't get points from it, but you have subs from there. Crotch rippers and banana splits are IBJJF legal. The straight armlock is legal. And what's great is that you still have the option to kick the guy straight into back control to get your points if you need it. And of course from the back you can sub. It takes a lot of effort to get good at it just like it takes a lot of effort to get good at rubber guard. But once you get good at it, you'll see how incredibly valuable it is.

I think I saw a video where Eddie was saying that the most dangerous positions were back control, spiderweb and truck. Mount was said to be dangerous too but, as it is more difficult to keep, the other three were preferred. I'd wager that if strikes are a factor, mount becomes a lot more dangerous.

I think the video is on youtube. :D

The thing that is great about the truck is that you have all your weapons attacking his legs at once. And usually he has to use a arm just to try to base him self up in a desperate position to defend. If your caught in the truck your basically getting clowned and tossed around like a helpless child on the mat.
Peace guys have fun and be careful this weekend!

The Truck is my number one thirstiest position. I am always looking for it like a savage. If I am in control of the roll, they are going to for a ride. Im with Eddie, the calf crank is definitely in my top 3. The Twister is the ultimate submission in my opinion.

Unfortunately my passing is not good enough to consistently get to Twister Side Control, so I usually hit the truck from Samurai by giving up 1/4 guard after a nice full guard sweep. But lately I have been hitting this wicked new entry from a side control escape… I am able to use my flexible legs to sneak 1 hook in if the guy is on his hip judo-side control style. Then dump him over and lockdown simultaneously. Its pretty dope escape/transition and I am catching a lot of guys with it.

I can't really comment on how often an average guy should look for it. Definitely a good idea especially if the opponent is unfamiliar with the position. (But if you put the Twister on a pedestal like I do, you should look for it everywhere! haha)

Always after the truck try and hit it from every where and any where i do alot of position drills/rolls for it
E.g
Start in guard go half guard dog fight get the hook and roll

For me:

1. S mount/spiderweb ( I use them both in conjunction)
2. Sambo Knot
3. Tie for back mount and truck
4. Chill Dog and oh the places I can go
5. Side Control
6. North South
7. Stoner Control and oh the places I can go
8. Single X Guard
9. Ham Sandwich and oh the places I can go
10. 50/50

From the back my preferred positions are

1) Back with one hook and ankles crossed
2) Crucifix
3) Truck
4) standard hooks
5) triangle

Its funny how much differently I attack the back when I am not concerned about getting my four

Truck and spiderweb are my top two deadzones if you get there 9 out of 10 it's a wrap

What's a "deadzone?" Like a football "redzone" where scoring is likely?

You got it^

It's a position where submission is imminent. Mount. Back. Truck. Spiderweb. Etc.

I can't really say where I rank the truck in my game, BUT when I get the back, if the RNC isn't gifted to me, I am looking for the truck. Very seldom do I look for the back take when I' m in truck. I feel like where ever you rank the back in your game, you may rank the truck one step up, once you get solid with it, unless you are a RNC killer. Really, when you are on the back and stay there to finish, the RNC, some variations of the RNC and some neck cranks are most of the subs, and they all defend in a similar manor that most gyms practice to extent. Where-as the Truck/ twister has soo many attacks that all defend very differently. I would wager that no gym outside of 10p practices to defend all them to any extent.

I think it's called De Souza control. Featured quite a lot in the early MTS episodes.

I go for the truck every time I roll. It's my favorite spot.

I thought it was called the wrestler when you grab the foot and pull them over, and I thought DeSouza control was when you clasp your hands together around the thigh. I will have to watch the Twister DVD again.

I usually only go for it from attacking the turtle, and I use the wrestler (if that's what it's called) to get there.

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

I thought it was called the wrestler when you grab the foot and pull them over, and I thought DeSouza control was when you clasp your hands together around the thigh. I will have to watch the Twister DVD again.

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On pages 59 and 62 of Mastering the Twister the first one is under the label "The Wrestler (ankle control)" and the second one is under the label "The Wrestler (DeSouza Control)". I have always called them exactly as you do.

Coincidentally, we're doing truck all this week at my gym. We haven't focused on it in a while and the new guys who have never seen it before are LOVING it.