I feel like there's too many variables with standing passes when I'm rolling with really reactive, energetic people. So I feel like pressure passing is a lot more dictative for attacking. At the same time, I'm pretty athletic, so it would be nice to get more out of my athleticism. Thoughts?
Both are very important but I prefer to pressure pass and top half pass
I also really like the top half passes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo
Depends on the position for me. If I'm in guard I'm always going bicep control an standing. I'd rather pass standing any day vs. Vs. Trying to pass AND dealing with submission attempts on my knees. When in butterfly or top half I usually use pressure passes to keep legs bundled. Alot of it depends on the opponent too.
i think they both are important to learn and sometimes when i cant pressure a guy ill standing pass. to me standing passes are just fun but i prefer to pressure pass,i dont like people getting a hold of my legs.
I'd rather use standing passes to deal with butterflies because I find otherwise I get broken down a lot - need to work on my posture and postural strength. I have been playing a lot with honey hole entries there as well though, and I'm loving that.
That said I do really like the chest pass but it's still a work in progress. My top half passing is pretty solid.
I love all passes. In my Jiu Jitsu infancy I was a pressure passer, but now I like them all.
I like to pass low if I am given the opportunity. But some guys just absolutely don't let you in there, so you gotta have the standing passes in the arsenal. If I can get to top half, I feel like I can win.
I like both but it depends on the person if they have a really good reactive guard i want to shut it down with my pressure passing otherwise i'll use my standing passes
In theory I would love to be able to use standing passes a majority of the time. I'm really lazy and when it all comes together the right way, I feel like I burn less energy with a quick standing pass than any other sort.
In practice, I have way better luck with pressure passing and top half. Especially top half. When you live in half guard a lot of the time the feel is just there.
Good question. I like a lot of knee slice and half guard passing, so I do like a lot of low pressure passing. I also like a like of toreando and leg drag passing. I'd say those would be my two passing styles. Even with the knee cut and half guard passing I usually initiate both of those from the feet. Anything to avoid the closed guard at all costs. If possible I try to pass away from their weapons, so towards their back so not in front of their face hands and feet.
Ok, so it's a mixed bag then. How about this'n:
If you're starting a roll standing against a seated good butterfly/DLR/spiral player, what are your methods for effectively closing the distance on knee slice passes? In other words, how do you shut down their open guards to get close enough to pressure the knee slice through?
I like to heel toss or club the head into an anaconda, darce, or JNTQuote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
If they are starting in butterfly I usually use a pressure pass. My objective is to pin his legs to his ass and wrap my arms around his legs to kill all movement. from here i usually use the flyover (although I do it slightly differently than the MTS version.) Another pressure pass I like to use against butterfly is to isolate\pin one of their legs with both of yours. Then use your free hand to hop over or pull\push through the isolated leg.
Invite them to do it, Get good at your swamp walks, then work a leg drag/knee slice variant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
Or do this
http://youtu.be/N6gu84DhxR4
Those are great passes. But let's say you're one of the smallest guys at your gym, and everyone you train with is really good at butterfly guard. Would you still go for the same passes? How do you prevent them from out muscling you and prevent the leg extensions? For me I've found knee slices to be effective, but I think my problem rests with the issue of closing the distance in an effective way.Quote:
Originally Posted by VJ Bella
Catcher's stance passing. It is one of the corner stone passing start off positions in my gym. The stance is here in this video, but all the details and options in passing are something you have to pick up or I guess call my sensei at Summit City Submissions in Fort Wayne and hope he is willing to share with a non team member. I don't mean to be a withholding Watkins, but some things are gym sacred even in the age of the internet when it comes to Jiu Jitsu and it is not my place as a grateful student to give everything away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr2FoVttm7UQuote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
All the great coach's choose to disseminate their techniques and their team's don't seem to suffer at all for it.
against Spiral/DLR like alot of the guys use at my gym i find it very effektiv to use leg locks against them. tho i like to bait alot of my passes and attacks by putting my legs in the middle against a butterfly guard let him sit for the leg and marcelotine him. and i find M1 as a go to pass standing
I really like to leg drag, sit back for the crossbody straight ankle/heel hook and if they kick the leg straight to escape take the pass. The crossbody leg attacks really flow well into a passing game as well as being good finishing positions.Quote:
Originally Posted by KasperRohdex
Standing passes, I like using explosive power movements while pinning the body and moving round to side (marcelo style)
I'm not a big guy either Ross. 5'9 175. The leg extensions actually make the pass easier. When he extends his legs slightly loosen your grip around the thighs an move your arms to right above the knee area (bundling his legs). From here simply hop over his legs. An get to the twister pass position asapQuote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
Ooooooooooooooo very nice!!!!!! This is gonna help me sooooooo friggin much!!!!! Thanks man!!!
Also, when you're flying over, do you do anything to deal with them stiff arming your back, or does this not really matter when trying to get to twister side?
This video is interesting. It helped me a lot with me no-gi knee slice passing, but one of the reasons I think it's weird is that Rafa Mendes often talks about why it's beneficial to pass squatting or even combat base or both knees for no-gi, since you don't have as many gripping options to prevent them getting under your base for X, spiral, deep half, and a bunch of other guards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Watkins
It's interesting because if you watch his ADCC matches or him sparring on his website, he mostly passes standing in no-gi with a lot of leg drag, toreando, and back steps, despite him teaching a lot of stuff like this.
Ross Davidson, Cobrinha I think is the best knee slice passer in no-gi. I'd study all of his ADCC and NoGi Worlds stuff from 07 to now. He uses it all the time and I try to imitate that style. The pressure on it is so heavy and he's great at using it to step 180 around the head for back takes, far side armbars, or locking up darces and guillotines.
If you have a good darce/guillotine/anaconda/JNT game one of the things Cobrinha does that I really like is he stays heavy in the knee slice position but lets them keep his foot trapped in quarter guard. That way when he attacks those chokes they're so busy trying to fight to keep their guard in place that they're sticking their own hips in place. So it's way easier for him to get a submission or if he decides to switch to the pass, he's basically all the way through and just pulls his foot through and spins around to the back.
Jeff Glover, Bill Cooper, and Marcelo Garcia, Rafael Lovato Jr, and Leandro Lo would be the other 5 I really study. I'd say check out Gui Mendes but he rarely does any no-gi stuff. But he's probably the best pressure knee slicing passer at the lower weights. Anything you look up from him though is probably going to involve the brabo (lapel darce) grip. You still might be able to get something from it.
BJJ Scout has good videos on Lo's knee slice (gi and no-gi) Bill Cooper's EBI match is good to see his knee slice. Glover's rolled up episode with Budo Jake is good, and so are his ADCC matches from '11. The best way to see Marcelo's knee slices are on MGinaction so those are harder to find.
No it matters. If they are really committed to stopping the pass on that side I usually hop to the other side mid pass an it usually catches them off guard. I don't always go right to twister pass here. Sometimes I just go to traditional side.. after I hop over their legs I use my far side arm as a block in front of their hips (to stop them from following me). Sometimes going straight to knee on belly works too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
I would have to disagree. I think there are small details and entire techniques most gyms keep under wraps as long as possible. You see the tech or detail everywhere after it has been hit at a big tournament, but sometimes that is a year or two after it has been fully developed in training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray
Check out this pressure pass. This one has worked great for me against high level grapplers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7dGm0KCcTY
Definitely get good at both Ross. Earlier this week we showed some nice standing passing. Mix those up with your close quarter pressure passing and you should be able to keep your opponent busy. No one pass is a be all end all of passes. The guys that are passing are going under, over, left, right, and directly through people. This is where you will be when everything comes together brotha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
Bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Rick
You will learn to let go of something that ain't there and move on to the next.
I think passing can sometimes be a lot like striking. Sometimes, you're throwing jabs looking to open him up. Other times, you may be blitzing straight ahead.
I like pressure passes. I like to smother my opponent and not give them any room to create a scramble
I mix em up but more often than not I start with a knee slice and go from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
If double under doesn't work for me, I go for pressure passing. Andre Galvao had an amazing video not too long ago saying that standing opens you up to DLR and a ton of sweeps.
I'm a fan of both but have been working on pressure passing recently, here are a couple of good options from Murilo Santa.
Stacks & Over Unders - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wujuSIjshSw
Pressure Pass Chains - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAWqGfDm0x4
My standing pass success rate has gone up significantly since I've been starting to look for the honey hole entry from standing. Just thought I'd throw that out there. :)
the honey hizzy is always good to have in the arsenal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Peck
Personally, I love standing passes and I am finding more and more success with them. Love Orchards sideways entry to kimura! Honey hole is right there too.
When I am rolling with lower level opponents, I pressure pass, especially if I feel my defense is stronger than their offense. I want to slowly crush their will and dictate everything until they give me a sub. I sometimes even give away arm bars (from full guard) to stack and pass, it allows me to really drill defense, and create good timing, which I will later need in comp and against top level opponents. Plus its really frustrating when you realize you got baited, and they often start to make mistakes or fall apart and give away submissions.
But.. if I am dealing with a strong opponent, now I am looking to posture, stand and pass asap. I don't want to let them start dictating the game, as they inevitably always will because of their skill level. The more I can stay dictating the game, the more of a chance I feel I have to launch on my path. I don't mind swamp walking a few times either to avoid letting them set up DLR, spiral, etc. Just pressure hard on the turn around and get in their face before they reset. (Won my match at GL training camp off a swamp walk, right into a "flying" marcelotine.)
If I am standing I personally also feel less predictable because my body and momentum are not connected to my opponent as it would be in their guard if I try to pressure pass. I feel more vulnerable to sweeps and counters when pressure passing.
One begets the other. If he is leaning against the front door to stop your entry.. try the backdoor.
What do I prefer? A successful pass. How? Irrelevant.
BoomQuote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers