Metamoris and Draws

Why do people hate draws so much?

Jake Shields vs Roberto Satoshi was "technically" a draw but everyone knows Jake beat him, even Satoshi admitted it in the post fight interview. What's there to be mad about again? It was clear Jake won, we all know who is better, who cares where they decide to type in "draw" on whatever database they use to keep track of grapplers records. From what everyone saw in that match, we know who has better nogi Jiu Jitsu, it was crazy clear who won.

Now if a match is not as clear as Jake's match then fuck it, it's a draw, so what. Why would people be mad because a match got declared a draw? Especially if it could've gone either way.

I should hate draws more than anyone, I clearly beat Royler yet technically it was declared a draw. I'm not pissed AT ALL. Why? Because the world knows I won and that's all that matters to me, I don't care what it says in this holy database that BJJ fans live by.

If a fight is too close to call, if a fight could've gone either way, it SHOULD be a draw, Mma fights included.

Fights won by advantages are the grossest fights ever. A draw like Jake's fight crushes every single match won by an advantage ever, especially fights that end 0-0.

If you need a winner so bad then go watch EBI or something :-)

ECS for everybody

Word

Nice touch on the EBI promotion at the end there... KAPOW!

#boom

For me personally, a good draw is equal to any submission in my books. Glover vs Yoshida in the secret match draw last event was one of the best matches I've ever seen. I wish it went 40 minutes! But then, there's draws like vinny's last match vs the brown belt. It was okay....mostly 15 minutes of stale mate and them some action. Personally I feel there is some stigma accosiated with draws because people hear it and think it wasn't exciting, that both guys were afraid to go after submissions. That's probably why EBI style is the future. The NHL no longer has ties. All the games end in shootout. Nobody likes to go home and answer, "who won?" with "nobody won, it was technically a tie."
Or submission attempts could count for something. That would be pretty cool if metamoris counted sub attempts in the case of a tie, and possibly another factor or two.

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Why do people hate draws so much?

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They hate draws so much because they don't like to hear the other competitor - who was clearly dominated - claim any sort of victory from the match. We saw this with Royler's camp, despite you running him through a clinic. When it leaves the mat, it leaves the world of technique and enters the one of commentary, pseudo-analysis, and politics. The dominated side then will confabulate from the "technical end of the draw" to reframe the entire match itself through that sole grain of technicality. "It was a draw, ergo, all that we watched should verify that end. It was 50/50 throughout the entire match."

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Originally Posted by Aiseop

They hate draws so much because they don't like to hear the other competitor - who was clearly dominated - claim any sort of victory from the match. We saw this with Royler's camp, despite you running him through a clinic. When it leaves the mat, it leaves the world of technique and enters the one of commentary, pseudo-analysis, and politics. The dominated side then will confabulate from the "technical end of the draw" to reframe the entire match itself through that sole grain of technicality. "It was a draw, ergo, all that we watched should verify that end. It was 50/50 throughout the entire match."

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+1

Not all draws are equal but if you had to choose between an exciting draw and an exciting match with a finish, I know which I would choose.

I think what your trying to say is that its not draws but BORING draws that we REALY hate. And it does seem more common that a match that ends without a sub is more boring on average than one that does. But it isn't the draw itself that's the problem, just the "draw mentality" (I just don't want to lose) which is basically a passive, stalling mentality.

Your match with Royler was a "draw" but I thought it was incredibly exiting even though Royler seemed to have a bit of that mentality at times.

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Originally Posted by Brian Debes

I think what your trying to say is that its not draws but BORING draws that we REALY hate. And it does seem more common that a match that ends without a sub is more boring on average than one that does. But it isn't the draw itself that's the problem, just the "draw mentality" (I just don't want to lose) which is basically a passive, stalling mentality.

Your match with Royler was a "draw" but I thought it was incredibly exiting even though Royler seemed to have a bit of that mentality at times.

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Well said.

My only concern about the "draw" system is that when there is a lot on the line people are going to be too content with it. Particularly in these huge reputation matches or semi-grudge matches. Royler was better off letting you tear his leg off until the timer went out then he would of been trying to sub you and getting submitted in my opinion, and knew it. If you had subbed him that match he had a lot to lose. And yes, people still know you won but they will have that shield to hide behind.

So far I have not really seen any serious evidence of an epidemic of people simply going for the draw, but I have a feeling particularly when it's personal things will be like that. Like if Wandy and Chael finally make it to Metamoris for example.

Not all draws are equal. I just love a full on attack, which can certainly end in a draw. Some matches, for whatever reason, don't seem to have the urgency. 20 minutes a match adds up to some serious boredom when people are just staying in the game as opposed to leaving it all on the mat.