Rock Climbing

Anyone into rock climbing? I would think JJ practitioners would have a lot of success climbing. In my experiencing climbing is about flexibility, balance, strength, and most importantly the conservation of energy. Sounds a lot like the requisites for JJ to me. There is also an important and fundamental aspect in climbing where you must keep your emotions under control. When you are clinging to some really small holds 80 ft in the air, it can be scary. To properly manage that situation you have to calm yourself, relax, and be patient and focused on what you're doing. You have to allow the fear to motivate you, but not overwhelm you. That sounds a lot like martial arts competition to me.

Anyway it just struck me as similar, and I suspect JJ students may be more likely than the average population to be climbers.

Wow! What are the odds I'd stumble onto the Nibiru forum and find this question first!

I've been climbing for 14 years, rolling for 3(ish). Here's my take...

Climbing is a great way to cross train for BJJ - not the other way around. Unfortunately, "rock climbing" can mean a lot of shit, just like "grappling." I'd say if you wanted to try it out, stick to Bouldering - it is the 'nogi' version, favoring athleticism and strength over a strong mental game. In time you may find that you personally are led to other styles, like Sport or Traditional climbing - but Bouldering is an extremely low-impact way to train, especially when done indoors.

Hard boulder 'problems' (as an individual climb is called) is like a dance - you have to master the individual moves and then put them together and perform the peice as a whole, if it is beyond your ability. The mental control comes into play in BJJ because you need to execute a sweep/submission/etc perfectly, using the right techniques in the right order while maintaining control.

Is it a good way to cross train? Absolutely. Is it fun? Hell yeah! Is it going to help you as much as rolling? Nope, nope and a thousand more nopes. If your heart is in BJJ t

(cont) is in BJJ then that is what you should focus on as climbing will only take away from it, although a short stint may give you some strength or balance benefits.

if you are down to climb in So Cal (or any moon heads!) hit me up, I'm psyched to introduce cool peeps to my other passion.

Greg

At our gym in Salt Lake City, it seems like there is a decent overlap between climbers and grapplers. In fact, we had 2 or 3 climbers at our open mat on Sunday.

I come from a climbing background as well, about 20 years. Gregarious hit the nail on the head: Climbing will help your BJJ, but not vice versa, and "rock climbing" is a term probably broader in scope than "martial arts".

Bouldering is indeed the easiest way to get into climbing (only shoes and a chalk bag) and will teach you a lot about movement, balance, and you'll develop wicked finger and lock-off strength. In my opinion, soloing easy and moderate off-widths and chimneys would be the kind of climbing that translates best to BJJ. This is my selling line to climbers , "Imagine soloing a 5.11 off width that was dripping wet and fighting back!" :confused::(, is the normal response. I've managed to drag several of my climbing friends in to grapple and they mostly liked it they just weren't willing to sacrifice and climbing time (or risk injury) to get better at it. I was working on Alex Honnold a few weeks ago but his skepticism was 8/10.

Overall, climbing is still a better sport overall but the actual movement/technique in BJJ is more fun. Minus points for BJJ: indoors, no real suffering (forced bivis, hypothermia, total exhaustion miles from the road, etc.), sometimes douchebag/meathead heavy, can't do it alone.

I've said this before, but the best thing you can do to improve your climbing, other than climbing, is slacklining. I believe slacklining would help in BJJ a lot, too; I got a few guys to try briefly and they saw the magic.

Climbing indoors is like doing jiu jitsu with a mannequin. Skip it if you can.

I grew up climbing but running the Chi-town moon has kept me from doing just about anything but jiu jitsu. I found it hugely beneficial while I was wrestling so it make sense for jj as well.

Rock climbing will give you a grip strength that will make second guess wanting to masterbate every time.

I was avid climber for more than 10 years and did BJJ in the gi most of that time as well. My Gi gripping strength and core was very, very good. But, it did seem my injury time was much greater back then, maybe just smarter now. Singer makes a good point about slack lining. One of my climbing/BJJ partners was great at slack lining and his knee on belly was sooo good. I remember a few times I gave up simply because he rode KOB so long and strong I couldn't take it anymore. Sadly, I made climbing my lively hood, now I am out of the business and haven't climbed in 4 years. Maybe again some day.

Love the 5.11 offwidth reference Singer. Except, when your 40 feet above your last crappy cam placement and you can't get another piece to fit, you can just "tap out" and go get a drink.

I hear boulering with a harness really makes your boulering better for MMA

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Originally Posted by Greg W

One of my climbing/BJJ partners was great at slack lining and his knee on belly was sooo good. I remember a few times I gave up simply because he rode KOB so long and strong I couldn't take it anymore. Sadly, I made climbing my lively hood, now I am out of the business and haven't climbed in 4 years. Maybe again some day.

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Yeah, I like to go double KOB and just balance on top of guys. Because I'm pretty light it fakes them into rolling toward me and straight into what I call a falling darce. Like you, as you know, after climbing as a livelihood I've barely done any in 10 years or so. But, I've always been an off-the-couch climber anyway so my one climb a year tends to be on El Cap or Baffin.

Hope we can get out together sometime!

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Originally Posted by Mario Lopez Alvarez

I hear boulering with a harness really makes your boulering better for MMA

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It's tradition bro, don't disrespect. Rock Climbing is a very serious art and you are being disrespectful if you don't wear the harness.

And don't give me that shit about being outside a club and suddenly having to climb a wall, but not having my harness.

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Originally Posted by Craig Murray

It's tradition bro, don't disrespect. Rock Climbing is a very serious art and you are being disrespectful if you don't wear the harness.

And don't give me that shit about being outside a club and suddenly having to climb a wall, but not having my harness.

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That is funny. The climbing world went through the same thing in the 1980's with the bolt wars. People said it wasn't climbing if you pre placed fixed bolts on a climb. Real climbing involved placing you own removable protection on lead.

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Originally Posted by singer

Hope we can get out together sometime!

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LOL, only if we go to the Gunks and run 5.5's for the day. You would have to stuff me in a haul bag and haul me up EL Cap. I trained and worked my ass off to climb 5.12 in my prime.
For all you that don't know, Singer was a Black Belt in climbing. And an "of the couch" black belt at that.

Yeah, rock climbing is a blast! Been going to Hueco Tanks since i was about 13. If any of you climbers are in the area hit me up! You all can do a jiu jitsu / climbing tour if El Paso. :)

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Originally Posted by Greg W

LOL, only if we go to the Gunks and run 5.5's for the day. You would have to stuff me in a haul bag and haul me up EL Cap. I trained and worked my ass off to climb 5.12 in my prime.
For all you that don't know, Singer was a Black Belt in climbing. And an "of the couch" black belt at that.

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Thanks, Greg, but the analogical truth is closer to having been a decent purple who was firmly dedicated to dying before tapping to anything. I had zero fear of cratering. That attitude makes free soloing 5.11 cracks or pulling off A5 hooking completely effortless. Leo told me once that he hated people like me because I forced actual good climbers into stuff they wouldn't normally do. I'm actually terrified of falling and have whipped on lead less than five times in my life. I don't think I ever even led a 5.12 sport route, so you were actually the better climber!

I used to rock and ice climb a lot, I just don't have the time these days. But I find there are many correlations to Jiu-Jitsu, especially the psychological side in dealing with fears and anxiety, also the mindset of sometimes flowing and other times mechanically moving forward slowly. I find Dean Potter's climbing to be very inspiring for my Jiu-Jitsu. In his words: "I am trying to flow with the dream, and instead of dying I am flying."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXT05R0WVQM

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Originally Posted by singer

Thanks, Greg, but the analogical truth is closer to having been a decent purple who was firmly dedicated to dying before tapping to anything. I had zero fear of cratering. That attitude makes free soloing 5.11 cracks or pulling off A5 hooking completely effortless. Leo told me once that he hated people like me because I forced actual good climbers into stuff they wouldn't normally do. I'm actually terrified of falling and have whipped on lead less than five times in my life. I don't think I ever even led a 5.12 sport route, so you were actually the better climber!

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Interesting, I have a healthy dislike for heights and Cratering. I always had to overcome a lot while climbing, especially big multi pitch routes, yet I have taken way more than five screaming whips on lead. I would never free solo willingly. You always seemed in the upper crust of climbers, always in the magazines, doing limit pushing routes. I on the other hand was a nameless, faceless, dime a dozen, run of the mill 5.12 climber. Sorry, but I have to disagree with you, free soloing 5.11 and A5 is some zen master shit. From where I sit, only black belts climb stuff on Baffin and live. There is more to being a black belt than just crushing a big number. Taken as a whole group of BJJ practitioners, a very small percent win ADCC. If you win ADCC you are probably a black belt, even if the strap around your waist is a different color. Taken as a whole group of climbers, very few people do what you did/do.

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Originally Posted by NameLikeNoOther

I used to rock and ice climb a lot, I just don't have the time these days. But I find there are many correlations to Jiu-Jitsu, especially the psychological side in dealing with fears and anxiety, also the mindset of sometimes flowing and other times mechanically moving forward slowly. I find Dean Potter's climbing to be very inspiring for my Jiu-Jitsu. In his words: "I am trying to flow with the dream, and instead of dying I am flying."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXT05R0WVQM

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I am really shocked that Dean is still alive.

In the past year and a half I've started climbing consistently. I do almost exclusively indoor top-rope climbing, though I have followed on some easy (~5.6) routes in Yosemite. It is difficult for me to isolate variables since I'm almost always doing something new and/or weird to work out, but I would say climbing hasn't helped me in any special way. I have certainly become stronger as a climber (I can do some 5.9 routes); I have noticed specifically that my grip endurance and weight distribution awareness are much improved. However, these don't seem to help much in nogi; we don't rely on static strength in very many positions. It is certainly better to climb than to sit on your ass eating potato chips, but don't expect big jiujitsu gains. Maybe dancing is better for jiujitsu (e.g., Geovanny)?

For me, uphill cycling and sprints of all sorts (swimming/running/cycling) have plugged one of the biggest holes in my game. I used to gas all the time, but now I never get tired. I found that crossfit didn't really help me that much compared to the time it took. Distance swimming and distance running seemed completely useless and didn't affect my grappling cardio at all. Even consistent yoga oddly didn't seem to help my flexibility, and I tore both of my LCLs at a time when I had been doing yoga 3x/week for 6 months.

In summary, if you want to be a better grappler, grapple. If you want to do fun things that are also active and help keep you fit, do those too. Life is too short not to have fun.

Holy schit Singer! I grew up following your adventures! I feel the same way as an off-the-couch climber, heading to joshua tree every other weekend or so to dork around on fun classics. BJJ is plenty of fitness to maintain and continue progressing even 4 or 5 days a month. I think the move would be to do some hangboarding after a light drilling/training session once or twice a week and maybe throw in a campus board - you can still get wicked strong with that program and focus almost 100% on BJJ. "Matt Time" in climbing is important, up to a point. Looking to get out to Zion and the big stone more often as it appeals more to my shitty body LOL

And fuck you, soloing the Rostrum is black belt level ;D

Haha Singer owning Cedar Wright in a grappling match on a climbing movie is a good watch. I was stoked to see that and at the time although I didnt know I thought he probably was 10th planet.. Hey Singer I am curious if you actually drew that picture of Cedar with the Ice ax in his back ? Anyhow I thought you were a great addition to that video.

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Originally Posted by Stephan Pepin

Haha Singer owning Cedar Wright in a grappling match on a climbing movie is a good watch. I was stoked to see that and at the time although I didnt know I thought he probably was 10th planet.. Hey Singer I am curious if you actually drew that picture of Cedar with the Ice ax in his back ? Anyhow I thought you were a great addition to that video.

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Thanks, Stephan, but I've never seen it; I've heard I come off as a psycho. Yes, I did paint that picture. Cedar trundled a rock on me on Mt. Asgard and almost killed me. Super cool that there's a few climbers lingering around 10th Planet. Gregarius, I didn't think it was common knowledge that I had soloed the Rostrum; here's what that looks like if you've ever wondered. (You can see the harness hanging in the far shot because I rapped in for the photo and Beth couldn't pull it up because I botched the rigging and there was drag. I'm at roughly the same spot in both photos.)

Rock on.


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You guys should really check out The Move Smart Podcast. A great podcast that I recently came across. They discuss a lot about rock climbing as well as gymnastics, parkour, martial arts, flexibility, mobility, strength and overall human movement.

Thanks for the insight in to that situation. They obviously left out the details.. like Cedar tossing rocks down at you! Fuckers. not to mention if he also stole your rack of gear and sold it as was mentioned in the film. Even though they tried to paint the psycho image when I saw you roll and then instructing them after I figured you were a decent dude. Not to mention you could have easily killed Cedar had you wanted.. lol

Damn thats a crazy picture.. Deff Black Belt

There has been some discussion in this thread about someone who's free climbing being blackbelt.

There are black belts, and there are black belts...

Free climbing anything over 20' that's more than a 5.6 is more black belt than almost anyone alive. On this subject, Jiu Jitsu is not even close to a fair comparison. Getting choked out 1000x is nothing compared to one single mistake made while free climbing.

singer, I'm in awe.

Seriously, I'm visibly shaking just looking at those pics and trying to put myself in your head.

for those who may be reading this thread but not completely sure what's being talked about... we're talking about a guy being, literally, hundreds of feet in the air with no rope, no harness, no safety gear or protection of any kind. Hanging on by fingers and toes... just trying to stay calm.

no fucking joke

http://www.coaststeepskier.com/wphome/

This guys mindset motivates me too.

Thanks, glad you guys enjoyed those. I'm including one more here that would offer a little more perspective to non-climbers. Roped vs free solo climbing is exactly the same as training at the gym vs a comp; except for the potential to starfish 1000 feet into a spectacular crater, of course. Some people have the mental control to make the two exactly the same and go out there and perform, and others go out there and fall to pieces. When I saw Eddie come on stage at Metamoris I could see that he was in that mode, the one on my face in this photo, and I felt a massive surge of excitement for him. I observed that he was a notch ahead of Royler there and felt like he was going to show it.


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