This probably a silly question but I just want to make sure so Cora won't get DQ at tournaments. Is the Iminari a choke or a neck crank? Thank you
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This probably a silly question but I just want to make sure so Cora won't get DQ at tournaments. Is the Iminari a choke or a neck crank? Thank you
From what I understand, the way I've seen Joe show it and other people have used it, it is a neck crank.
It's a choke but you can get the neck crank from there.
Its both but considering your hands are around their neck and not their head its considered a choke most of the time.
If she's doing the gi portion, you can use a free lapel and wrap it around their neck from behind. Total choke. Nogi, would be iffy, and I bet different referees would call it their own way. I'd try to make it as close as a "pliers/short choke" or "RNC" as possible, to be safe.
Refer to the thread at http://www.10thplanetjj.com/threads/...-choke-at-4-20 to see the Imanari put a guy to sleep.
If the hands are locked around the face or head, it's definitely a crank. If the hands are locked around the neck.. that could be called either way. It definitely can choke, but can also be a bit of a neck crank too. If done in competition, I think you would be leaving it up to the ref to call. My opinion, to be safe, and try to keep it similar to a RNC.
Vids for reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_WM29-2X-M
Ummm... It doesn't matter what it actually is, it matters whats legal. "Neck cranks with chokes" are legal in almost everything as are "shoulder locks with some head/neck pressure". This should be a legal omaplata finish and I almost always get shoulder with it if my opponent doesn't freak out and crank there self weird. But it depends on the reff, I've seen so many electric chairs called heel hooks...
Short answer: In adult beginner under IBJJF based rule sets, I've seen this typically allowed by the reff...
Kids, if its a rule set where its "no pulling the head on a triangle", another words, if they are worried about neck cranks inside other moves which is generally exclusive to kids, you probably will get a warning if their head is pulled back at all... But it all depends on the ref.
P.S. The more you have the grip down by the chin (low) and pull yourself up, the more its gonna be in the shoulder and the less likely the reff will care no matter what it is. This is all just based on my experience of what reffs typically do though.
Wow thank you, I totally didnt think about the Gi part, I guess that is why you are the brown belt and Im not..:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
The reason I ask is because I see this as a huge weapon for Cora. Usually she go for the Carni, but with crazy flexible kids its hard to finish and they somehow wiggle out or roll over. She still catch them in her triangle during the transition but I want her to hit jiu claw more now and with this grip, I think she can finish them at higher percentage.
LOL. I train in gi, too, and I tried working on the imanari when i saw the rogan vid. In gi, my partner would get really tight and bundle up. Freeing up your own lapel and using it to choke them is a great alternative to RNC, regular cross-choke, or bow-n-arrow. Good luck! Love her competition vids!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cora Sek
I'm kinda curious as to what you are doing to choke them with your own lapel if they are tightened up. Anyway you could break it down a little bit or a quick video? I train in the gi mainly and if this is something I can use, I would love to see it. Right now, my omo finish is actually under hooking their far arm and kinda ride their back. Either they go belly down and I can just compress my arms and extend my legs to get the should lock finish with the legs or they try to sit away and it causes them to get trapped on that arm that I have omo'd and it gives me a super easy kimura. (have used this MANY times)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
Well, I'll provide a vid like I did for the bow-n-arrow from stoner control, but it'll take a bit before I go to class. Either tomorrow or Tuesday. For now: it's two-on-one in terms of hands, right? So, regular cross-choke or modified bow-n-arrow are there in terms of collars. But sometimes it's easier to pass my own near-side lapel over their shoulder with my left hand and give it to my right hand. The more you pull, the more you torque the shoulder and bring your chest closer to their back and the tighter to the neck. It's like a horse-rein. Anyway, this is really "extra" since in a flowchart for most of us it would fall after omoplata, sweep, log roll, wrist lock, etc. In MMA and nogi, the Imanari is a much more "first option" than gi.
I have zero problem waiting for a video. As for now, I think I get what you are doing, but yea, if you don't mind making a video that would help make sure I'm not too far off in what I think you are doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
Keep it up guys, good stuff. Im taking notes.
Ran into the same question about the Suffocator as my daughter likes to hit that naturally. I got dozens of different answers.
Ref should pay more attention. The guy tried to tap at 00:38Quote:
Originally Posted by gene k
@Aiseop (Poesia? "Poetry" in Portuguese? Nice.):
This explains why with all the omoplata setups that we practice in the gi, this choke has never come up. I think if I sat up from jiu claw without flattening the opponent first my teacher would assume I haven't been paying attention in class.Quote:
Anyway, this is really "extra" since in a flowchart for most of us it would fall after omoplata, sweep, log roll, wrist lock, etc. In MMA and nogi, the Imanari is a much more "first option" than gi.
Anyways, excellent discussion.