This is gonna be a fantastic DVD. Christmas list.
Ryan Hall covering his version of TSC, the Twister Roll, and more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjF6DV9QfJ0
Printable View
This is gonna be a fantastic DVD. Christmas list.
Ryan Hall covering his version of TSC, the Twister Roll, and more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjF6DV9QfJ0
why take a 10th planet tech and make it not work as good... just seems like he wanted to make it better and failed... the lockdown gives you way more control, so why not use it ?
Ryan Hall should have MTTT on his xmas list
I like the roll over the knee in half guard advise, learnt something.
rep it with hooking a lockdown, just like from the quarterguard. I tried this and the dude I was rolling with got out like 80% of the time. with the lockdown in I always get to the truck.Quote:
Originally Posted by watty31
works better for me anyways
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by nabbflax
Just so you guys know, twister side control is also called ushiro kesa gatame. The truck is also a sambo position. EVERYTHING has most likely been done before somewhere.
And Ryan Hall could kick most people on here's asses.
Just sayin'.
I believe ushiro kesa gatame is performed by positioning you hips above your opponent's shoulder (allowing you to wrap up your opponent's arm like you were cradling a football) whereas Twister Side control is performed with your hips below your opponent's shoulder. Similar body position for sure, but different application. Like the difference between being in someone's full guard vs being in full mount; your body position is the same, but relative to your opponent the little variation can make a huge difference!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Madsen
dude, they weren't questioning Ryan's ability just his method to getting to the truck. And while everything has been done before, there are slight variations in the techniques which make one technique superior to another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Madsen
The twister is eddie's go to move for 15 years or so. He has refined that monster like a piece of art work for the same amount of time. I would bet he has put in at least 10x more twister rolls than ryan. We're not bashing ryan for the sake of it, Ryan's a beast. Just that when there is a better way to do it, it should be pointed out, how else does one learn. JUST SAYING :).
but when the entire rest of his game is based in trad. 1/2 guard, why would he use lockdown in this single situation?
seems unnecessary, especially when he doesn't stay in the truck and simply transitions to the back.
if you think you can't glean some crucial details from the way ryan teaches this (even if it is different from eddie), then you are a certifiable nut job, or you are already a master .
if you pay attention to the reason that hall does what he does, it's because he isn't even going for the twister at all. for him, it's an avenue to the back, plain and simple.
also, watch the differences and subtleties between the way that ryan rolls and the way eddie rolls. listen to their objectives. you hear eddie say things like:
- "lock him down"
- "settle him down"
- "cinch it up", etc....
you hear ryan use terms like "bait," "trick," etc...
2 different philosophies on the same art. and something extremely valuable to be learned from each.
also, please take note that the techs ryan is showing are done in a gi, where locking down and clinching aren't nearly as important as without the gi. you don't just "slip out" of a half locked truck in the gi. but with greasy legs, you better lock that thing down.
time to start moving beyond step by step techniques and look for principles, boys. there is much to be learned from everyone.
i think that would be good to get the crazy calf crank fast.
The revolution has begun
This is the way I've seen BJJ guys doing the transition. It is a lot looser but like Brandon said, it's just a different philosophy about the intention of the move. It's basically a truncated version of the 10th planet technique. The advantage is that it doesn't require a grasp of the truck to pull of but the negative is the lack of control.
Different tools for different purposes.
point taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
Just purchased his deep half and back attacks. I can't wait. Yeeeeeeaaaah!
Ps...when in half guard its called lockdown....from twister side its called grapevine.
i ve seen gokor chivichyan setting up his rolls like that (think it was here: http://www.budovideos.com/online/cat...cial/rolledup/)
also i got athletic guys in my class who outwhay me by 40ibs and (way) more. when i slap the grapevine from tsc on they know whats comming and most of the time they`re playing it super defencive, pressing there legs on the mat and making it impossible for me to roll and move the leg with me to the truck. when i saw ryans way to do it i thought the loose hold on the leg could give me the space to roll and the momentum from the roll would help to take the leg with me..... just a thought, ill test that......
halls version looks more like grapevine so i purpose the new name twisted lock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Wood
Check out the samurai. from the grapvine you just stretch your feet out and go to the back skipping the truck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Gammel
But that is just the way I find most effective. For others like Hall other techs are better I guess.
I dont attend any 10th planet school and not saying Hall doesnt know his shit, just saying locking the foot in gives you more control.
At 4:48 Brandon is what i was telling you about that one night that i was thinking about using. doing it from half guard sitting up and rolling over right shoulder or left if you on other side. You didn't take me very serious :( ahhhhhhhh o well.
i thought you were talking about doing it from the lockdown, which is nuts. the movement you are talking about (and that ryan teaches at the 4:43 mark) is called the Trickster. pg 86 in Mastering the Twister.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Blankenship
sorry i didn't believe in you, singlet. :)
nah i was saying if he was in your half guard all you had to do is get his arm over and situp and roll. and the grapevine you have on a person's leg when rolling is like a reverse lockdown. I had a great time rolling with the 7th grade football team the other day. I swear people thought I was super man or something. Stay tuned next week when I get to roll with the 3rd grade cafeteria lunch ladies.
I think there are definite advantages to the way Ryan does it. In my opinion, not grape-vining your legs makes you more mobile for the roll. However, I think someone that knew what he was doing in the TSC could avoid the lower leg hook. Using your top leg to open their legs has made my twister roll much better from TSC.
Ryan Hall equals AWESOMENESS!
now i totally think its awesome that people are utilizing 10th planet techniques especially the twister roll which is very unique to the system and i think its awesome that great jiu-jitsu guys that didn't want to do a super fight with denny prokopos are now using the technique and even putting videos out about it but i'd be surprised to see or hear a mention just giving eddie credit, props, and acknowledgement for the innovation eddie has put forth with the move.
with that said it makes me feel uneasy that 10th planet shit will get put out like its unique to some one elses game and that its not in fact 10th planet. Its already enough bs to hear people say that the techniques we do or our system is not unique but to watch it actually be taught and with the idea that its being taught without giving a little respect where respect might just lead to a trend.
2 things:Quote:
Originally Posted by nabbflax
1. Ryan didn't take a 10th planet technique. He just started doing the rolling back take over the past couple years. He isn't familiar with the truck or any of the 10th Planet twister roll stuff. I don't think he's ever seen it.
2. Have you seen any of his recent matches from 09 or 10, or ADCC 09? He has destroyed people with this rolling back take, and he has it down crazy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mJT_PgVgPY
Not only that, but Ryan along with Jeff Glover and Baret Yoshida are the 3 best American lightweight/featherweight competitors to ever do BJJ and sub grappling. Not even close. They're so far ahead of the next best Americans at that weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Madsen
While it is true Ryan goes straight to the back, I think you may be confusing him with Jeff Glover when you say his game is based on the half guard. Jeff's game was/is famous for the deep half. Ryan has started doing the deep half a lot, but I haven't seen much of him in the basic half guard, except in the older days when shooting for a triangle from the overhook half guard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Gammel
Lately Hall has been doing tons of back-takes both gi and no-gi. Lots of Rear Naked Chokes and Bow & Arrows. The Marcelo Guillotine from hell. Obviously 50/50 sweeps, reverse heelhooks, etc.
Are you really saying Ryan Hall stole a move (that was most likely done before any of us were born) and isn't giving credit for it, when it is actually different than the twister roll? Actually watch the entire DVD and not just a sample clip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Stewart
As for the grapevine back-take, Gokor, Karo, and a lot of other guys take the back with a grapevine. I learned it from a CACC guy in Maine in 2001.
Also, for everyone's benefit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsNtpxKVn5M
[QUOTE=WhiteMike2k9;26631]2 things:
1. Ryan didn't take a 10th planet technique. He just started doing the rolling back take over the past couple years. He isn't familiar with the truck or any of the 10th Planet twister roll stuff. I don't think he's ever seen it.
Find it hard to believe that a top level grappler doesnt know shit about what Eddie teaches...
And if he isnt familiar with the truck is he is kinda ignorant to other styles of grappling and I really doubt that.
In case he isnt tho he should become familiar with the 10th planet system.. Evolve or die.
Most of Eddies game is stuff he has from other styles of grappling like sambo, judo and wrestling that he has worked into his bjj game and named for his system.
Pulling out to the side to end a triangle choke is old school, but its ofc awesome that Ryan Hall shows it so ppl that dont use it and arent aware of it see.
Think that kinda got out sourced cause its not that easy in live rolling so ppl just got really good at the squeeze.
Ryan Hall is a beast no doubt. Just saying I personally have the feeling of more control with the grapevine and it gives you more options then just taking the back, gives you the truck, where you can have mad submission game and also gives you the option of going for the twister.
there's about a 0% chance that Ryan Hall hasn't seen eddie's stuff.
he knows what it is. did he learn this movement from eddie? maybe, maybe not. who cares. i just think he's a good teacher, and i think there is some knowledge to be gleaned from the way he teaches it.
whether or not he (or anyone else, for that matter) is original makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever.
This. You know tradtional half guard offers alot more hip movement for the guy on bottom and it's opens up a whole different bag of tricks to put in your arsenal. And the same can go for this variation of the twister roll. I'd suggest you guys open your minds a little. Isn't that what 10th Planet's supposed to be all about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
[QUOTE=nabbflax;26648]Don't know what to say. Nice reply. Ryan is obviously evolving. He placed 3rd at ADCC and is the only person besides Cobrinha to score on Rafael Mendes and not be submitted.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMike2k9
I hope Eddie gets a royalty check in case he doesn't get credit for his tekks.
thats right, tried it on different guys today and it makes you more mobile for the roll. hook and roll! makes it faster. but if you have to take another road and cant get to the back you have to get the lockdown in the transition and that can be a battle (same thing with the reversed lockdown if he rolles)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Gammel
If you can't get to the back there are a ton of options that don't involve having to get the lockdown. If you haven't ordered the DVD it's really worth the money. Everything is set up to be applicable without the gi as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominik
No fishnet? No love handle? No lockdown? Ryan is a straight assassin with alot of shit especially the 50/50 system but based on these clips, his twister roll set ups are circa 2001. Alot has changed since my twister roll set ups in the mid 90's to early 2000's. Dudes at Jean Jacques started getting hip to them and started flipping the twister rolls on me, especially Craig Beachamp. The only way those set ups are gonna work are against guys that don't know how to do twister rolls themselves. If you try to set up a twister roll without a fishnet or love handle or lockdown at HQ against my browns, you will get it flipped on you. I would never set up a twister roll the late 90's way unless I'm rolling with a dude who has no clue about it. Weird how Ryan doesn't mention who he learned the twister roll from but then again it doesn't seem like giving props is something that he's really that into :)
I guess he doesn't give props when it comes to Eddie Bravo but we know the truth ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo
I would love to see Ryan Hall roll with some of your brown belts or black belts for that matter. Please make it happen at the next nogi tournament Ryan enters.
You guys are reading way too much into a sample clip.