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Hi All,
Could any body give me some tips for the fastest way to get my knees to the ground in butterfly stretch - at the moment I'm sitting with my heels to my crotch, leaning against a wall and pushing my knees to the mat with my hands but I'm worried this is doing more harm than good as the next day my knees ache, has anyone had this before??
Gavin 'sunny' England
I recommend hot yoga as often as possible, daily if you can swing it.
Also do not try to stretch out a cold joint. Make sure you're warmed up and have a good sweat going before you try to increase flexibility.
If you try to stretch a cold joint when your body is cold you not only risk injury, all you're really doing is warming up the joint. You want that joint fully warm and worked out. THEN you stretch out the muscle and tendons to increase flexibility. This is a common mistake.
As an example, one great time to increase your flexibility is at the end of a hot yoga session.
Thanks Brother! people keep mentioning yoga to me - will have to get on it
Yeah the benefits you get from yoga, especially heated yoga, are manyfold. It will also improve your recovery and healing as an example. (increased bloodflow)Quote:
Originally Posted by apygav
If you need proof, try this. Go to a single hot yoga class. Before class, get into your butterfly and make note of how deep you get. Then do your best to get through the yoga class. At the end, get back into your butterfly and see how deep you get. You should see yourself already much deeper into the posture because your hips are fully warmed up and stretched out.
Then at that point spend 10 minutes or so just working your butterfly and your splits and your lotus. (spend more time if they will let you) You'll notice you can press much deeper in that you ever have before. This is your magical time where you can really increase your long term flexibility. Get into the posture, press until it hurts, and then hold it. Don't press too hard, you dont want to injure yourself, but it should hurt. Hold it, hold it, hold it, relax.
If you stretch your joint cold, tomorrow nothing will be different.
Good luck!
PS, you can do the yoga at home if hot yoga is inconvenient or expensive for you. Just find some good youtube videos and do it in your living room. Do a good 60 minute yoga session and SWEAT! Really work the session hard. When you're finished, work on flexibility.
It's not fun, nor glamorous. It's quite uncomfortable. But you're used to that from Jiu Jitsu already right? :)
It may sound like a broken record but just keeping up with the stretches on a daily basis and making small gains everyday. It can be done in a manner of months if kept up with.
You'll get a lot more out of stretching if you do it right after rolling and you're all loose. Theres a youtube video out there where Eddie talks about stretching
Yes, I had this problem before it and it shouldn't hurt, it's not normal. That means u r doing too much. Time it and increase gradually. Wait a couple of days before u start again until your knees don't hurt anymore. U don't want to creat any permenant damage. It better to stretch when u r warm, he'll sometimes my gf takes a bath and I tell don't drain it! I'll take it and stretch in it for 10 mins lol I'm that desperate. She takes hot ass baths so why not lol. I live in Quebec, it's cold as fuck Here for 2 months..
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Originally Posted by apygav
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Originally Posted by hespectnogi
True and untrue. People get better results when they r warm and have not done any strength training on those muscles before. But it's not very realistic to do it this way so it's better than nothing to do it after practice.
How much warming up do you recommend, and how? I think I heard Rogan once say to use an elliptical until you break a good sweat and then stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Sarasin
i found just stretching during down time helps tremendously. What I mean is, if you're watching tv, sit in a stretching position. Nothing too intense because your joints wont be warm. But doing minor stretching while sitting around in your down time helps. Stretch during a tv show, break during commercials. Stretch staring at the computer screen. That helped me.
how about the way i show you at the end of every class. ;) ill explain again when you're next down
Another thing to consider is what you are doing the rest of the time when you are not rolling? Do you sit a lot, especially for long periods of time? Sitting really can negatively impact your flexibility, even if you stretch every day. I've read that you should not sit for longer than 20 mins at one point if possible and be very aware of your posture. I have very tight hips and lower back and after a long day as a desk jockey, it takes me quite a while to un-wind.
ha ha I was hoping you wouldn't see this post Mick! - I'm doing the stretches you show after every session, and just some basic ones in my down time, I'm seeing good results flexibility wise but my knees are aching like crazy - never had any problems with my knees so just wanted to make sure I'm not over doing it by pushing my knees down in butterfly, shouldn't be though as its not a stretch in the knee right??Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Broster
sorry I didn't make it Tuesday wedding stuff!!
cheers for all the advice fellas!
stretching after class is good. i just do jumping jacks and squats to gt warm otherwise.
I disagree. Stretching should never hurt. You should feel a deep stretch, but if it's actually painful then you have gone too far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
Your breath is the most important thing. Every inhale you stretch deeper - even by a millimetre at a time - and every exhale you completely relax that area. Don't go too far, or you risk injuring yourself.
To my understanding, flexibility and the rubber guard are all about hip mobility and flexibility. Feel the stretch in your hips. There should be no strain on the kneesQuote:
Originally Posted by apygav
In one of the videos Eddie said he "would never give a black belt to someone who could'nt do the lotus" I need alot of improvement also on my stretching and having tried the lotus plenty of times it seems to put a lot of pressure on my knees when I try to get the second leg in position. I can almost get there but not nearly comfortably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arman Fathi
regarding the lower body what's bad about sitting is that it overstretches your gluts and tightens your hamstrings and amongst other things as well. Its not a black and white thing where sitting = bad for flexibility, it doesn't really work like that. I've herd a source say every 30 mins u should get up and walk around or stretch, but its not really realistic in any job or ect.
Be careful when u say things like "i ve herd that" because if u don't know for sure someone might believe u and pass on the information like its 100% true, u might be wrong. Its not the end of the world but u know what i mean.
I even hear eddie bravo say to stretch your hamstrings if u have back pain. If everyone would listen to that advice some people would actually make it much worse for them and could actually cause some permanent damage in some cases. Im sure eddie is just trying to help people but u get what i mean.
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Originally Posted by Jayamilne
be VERY careful, dont fuck up your knees. so many people fuck up their knees from trying to get better flexibility. Remember eddie has been eating his toe nails as a kid so his flexibility was there from day one. don't over do it. focus on training more than flexibility, do the flexibility stuff when your watching tv but not just butterfly stretches, glut stretches, hip flexor stretches calf stretches, give a break for your knees, RG stretches can fuck them up be careful.
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Originally Posted by Mrmmamoto
true, Craig is just going to get people hurt, shame on u :P
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Originally Posted by Jay Chow
Just to be clear, you should never have any significant pressure on your knees in any of these stretches, let alone pain. Pain in your knees from stretching would be a very bad sign, whatever's doing that, stop immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Sarasin
I also concede that you guys may know more about stretching for flexibility than I do. My knowledge is mostly anicdotal, from my own experience, and what I was taught in TKD. That said, it's hard to imagine someone going from inflexible to being able to do the full splits without some pain while stretching out those tendons.
I'd certainly be anxious to hear from anyone who developed a completely flat full splits who did not endure pain and discomfort while getting there.
Also when I said pain I was really meaning significant discomfort. Real pain indicates possible injury, back off. But all the same, getting into full splits isn't going to be leisurely stretching. At least not in my experience. I could be wrong
the thing they teach us in school when i did my personally training program was that usually its until u start sweating is when u know u r warmed up. They also said 5 to 10 mins. like i said, sometimes this isnt realistic so if u stretch with no warm up be carefull and go slow. doesnt have to be an elliptical lol, could be anything, sometimes when im lazy at the gym where i work i just go in the sauna for 4-5 mins then go lift some weights lol, its a small gym so no one is in it really. And of course during that time im listening to joe rogan experience or EBR :p.
but the importance is getting your body warm so it can be more elastic so there's less chance of injury and your also more flexible.
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Originally Posted by Craig Murray
makes sense what u r saying. what they teach us in school they don't want us hurting the public and most of the clients r not athletes so the advice are probably a bit more conservative. I have read a book where they talk about different discomfort levels so u may be right, just like working out, the more u push yourself the better chance u have for injuring yourself and getting better results. u just dont want to create more tension so that's why static stretching and PNF stretching is recommended and not ballistic stretching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
I have been doing hot yoga for about a month now , and I can tell ya , my flexibility has improved so much !
I'm going to start hot yoga asap every body has been suggesting that!
I do all of my 'Hard' stretching after class now so I am am well and truly warmed up, I'm glad to say all of my knee pain has gone - having looked into it I think it was something called runners knee (kinda like tennis elbow) just over use and repetitive strain but I'm glad to say it's cool now to the point where last night we did some partner stretching and my knees are on the floor in butterfly stretch with no pain this morning!
thanks for all the tips
10p4life!!
Here is a shot of my Lotus progress over the last month, slow but steady..
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