Mandatory mat time to roll?

What other gyms practice this? Does your gym allow you to roll on the first day?

I'm definitely thinking of regulating white on white rolling and would just like to hear other gyms philosophies on the subject. I definitely direct their rolls when possible, but since I am constantly rolling, every now and then I'll see two white belts having a kumite. Negligent on my part. I've always been old school trial by fire "if you're on the mats you're Rollin off" mindset. Injury prevention is a huge priority with me, but so is progression. The fact is that all badasses take risks, and I like to encourage it. Even though it is a form of combat we train, non-athletes sign up all the time. It takes a while to develop a body that is structurally sound for combat from scratch- But everybody wants to roll..

How many classes should be required to safely participate in free roll?

I'm just brain storming here, but maybe create your own video breaking down rolling for beginners. That way any potential students could watch and know what to expect at your gym.

Bobby, call me and I will tell you how we do it. It has worked out really, really well for everyone.

There is one black belt instructor in our area whom everyone their first day is only allowed to roll with him, after the first time he will slowly allow you to roll against higher belts first, who pretty much show you the ropes. One of the other schools I train at allows new folks to roll, but he also emphasizes white belts need to roll against a colored belt at least one each night. I think it's a case by case situation, and the individual too. Being as experienced as I am now, I try to keep an eye on other newbies who roll against each other, and make sure "kumites" are kept controlled if anything.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

Bobby, call me and I will tell you how we do it. It has worked out really, really well for everyone.

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Word

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

What other gyms practice this? Does your gym allow you to roll on the first day?

I'm definitely thinking of regulating white on white rolling and would just like to hear other gyms philosophies on the subject. I definitely direct their rolls when possible, but since I am constantly rolling, every now and then I'll see two white belts having a kumite. Negligent on my part. I've always been old school trial by fire "if you're on the mats you're Rollin off" mindset. Injury prevention is a huge priority with me, but so is progression. The fact is that all badasses take risks, and I like to encourage it. Even though it is a form of combat we train, non-athletes sign up all the time. It takes a while to develop a body that is structurally sound for combat from scratch- But everybody wants to roll..

How many classes should be required to safely participate in free roll?

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Wattup bobby!!! yeah, we do, however, my guidance is that it's not a smash session to the newbie. It's a learning session. Teach the new guy something you learned or wanted to learn your first day and flow roll it. Technically, It's probably not a full roll but the new people get to interact with everyone on the first day, get tapped a few times without getting smashed, and participate the enitire first day. They don't have to roll if they aren't comfortable the first day but most do. I've been to gyms that make you sit and watch the first day of rolling and felt it made the new people alienated on their first day. I've got a lot of positive feedback doing it this way. Just my two cents worth. Hope all is well, brother!!

In our school, we leave it up to the new student if they would like to roll or not. If they want to roll, everyone in the school knows that when they roll with new people, not to smash them and to let them work the technique they learned that night or have them work positional drills. If they don't want to roll, we have them watch and then one of the seniors will sit with them and watch a roll; while explaining what's going on and what they need to focus on being new. For new folks with experience, we pretty much treat them like one of the crew...except me, I let them work to see where they are at for the first couple rolls (putting them in sub positions, but not tapping them and putting them in various positions of dominance and submissive to see how they react) and let me senior guys roll with them a bit more at their level.

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

every now and then I'll see two white belts having a kumite

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White belt month one wrestlers are the worst at the white belt kumite when rolling from my experience. I've been slammed, had elbows dug nice and deep into my ribs while in my guard, foreheads being stacked on my mouth as hard as they could, and uncontrolled power yanks on keylocks by white belt 1st month wrestlers. I feel sooo much safer rolling with a black belt who can smash me in a controlled fashion vs Mr. or Mrs. White Belt Kumite.

What's worked for me with a new person I roll with is I ask them their belt level and grappling experience and if they have any injuries that I should watch for. I tell them mine, and I just directly say, please don't yank uncontrolled on anything or spaz out during the roll so that neither of us get injured. This sets the tone of "I care about your safety and mine and want to enjoy this learning experience we're about to share."

We used to do it where all white belts roll their first day. Not too long ago, we switched it to where they need to get a month under their belt to spar. I like the idea above of putting emphasis on flow rolling with the beginners. Our new policy came into play more in regards to safety and the fact that a brand new white belt, as we've seen, oftentimes has absolutely no idea what they should be doing. We've made exceptions for people coming in with wrestling experience, which makes sense given that they're generally safer, as I've seen. They might be overly aggressive, but at least there's a degree of predictability when dealing with a wrestler vs. someone who's never trained a day in their life. But irregardless I think training on the first day would be quite alright with proper communication and understanding.

Josh Stopped letting New guys roll right off the bat. (New guys: New to grappling, no prior training) even when they have wrasslin experience, they've gotta do a few classes first.

As a whitebelt, it's the whitebelt wrestlers that scare me. Highly trained for power, aggression, explosiveness, competitive instinct. All great traits, but dangerous when applied in context with zero JJ experience against other people with little to no JJ.

If you keep the newbies rolling with upper belts, it's probably much safer than if you let the new guys roll with other new guys.

I generally agree although personally I prolly wouldn't have kept an interest if I didn't get smashed
Proving its effectiveness
Maybe I'm just a hard head

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Originally Posted by ben jones

I generally agree although personally I prolly wouldn't have kept an interest if I didn't get smashed
Proving its effectiveness

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Yeah I think a lot of it has to be individualized. For me, I knew exactly what I was getting into. I knew all about JJ before I stepped on a mat, no one needed to show me that it was legit or that I was helpless against it. Other guys might come in with competitive wrestling, no martial arts, and only a vague understanding of what JJ might be. Some people probably come in very skeptical.

For some people, having a purple belt tap you as many times as he can for 5 minutes might be the best possible thing to both demonstrate what JJ is, and show the guy that he's helpless against someone who's skilled.

Just depends on the student I think.

I really think the danger comes with newbies roll with newbies. In some cases it's probably fine, but two guys who don't know what they're doing who start escalating their roll as they get more frustrated and aggressive with each other... that's bad news.

The first mma school in my area was a csw affilliate. Not sre if this was the instructors way or a csw structure at that time. I think people would just watch the first night. Then just grapple for position with everyone for a while. I forget how long, maybe a week or 2. Couldve been longer. we were all white belts starting at the same time, so we took everything really slow, but it ended up locking the old csw fundamentals in my head forever.

Bobby,
I only let whites roll after around 6 weeks of heavy drilling warm ups, to avoid these situations. All the while, I am giving them healthy examples off the bat.

Secondly, if I have a drop in who is a white belt or even a blue, I monitor them carefully when they attend my classes. I look out for spazz type behavior and healthy habits durng live drills. I even tell them. " Hey dude, its not ADCC so be technical as possible to hit your spots not recklesslessness, take care of each other". You know what I mean. I literally put a guy out the other day for being a dick. I literally felt like he was trying to end my life I swear to god. So I let him have it to put him in line. He wasnt happy. Shit happens!

He had been terrorizing everyone even in basic drilling. Now, I do not condone such behaviour, but all bets were off after he slapped me around so I went full retard on his ass. I believe its avoidable. Through careful monitoring and gathering a little history at the beginning helps too. You can tell if they are a little unstable. You have to watch out for rogue players who just hop around dojo to dojo. They will scarifice all your team if you know what I mean, so make it clear from the start, that they won't roll today if they have been reckless in live drills, as there are things to learn but next time maybe. That way, it kind of takes the heat out of them. Or I will put them with my killers and it sorts itself out.

Personally I dont care either way for me. I roll with everyone who walks in the door, but my students can get a real weird experience and maybe even reconsider things, if a tool walks in and literally rolls like its life or death. It can hurt your team.

THese are extreme cases but I always like whites, who are ready, to roll with colour belts, so it takes the juice out of them and has a calming effect on them.

Hope it helps

DO tell

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

Bobby, call me and I will tell you how we do it. It has worked out really, really well for everyone.

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

What other gyms practice this? Does your gym allow you to roll on the first day?

I'm definitely thinking of regulating white on white rolling and would just like to hear other gyms philosophies on the subject. I definitely direct their rolls when possible, but since I am constantly rolling, every now and then I'll see two white belts having a kumite. Negligent on my part. I've always been old school trial by fire "if you're on the mats you're Rollin off" mindset. Injury prevention is a huge priority with me, but so is progression. The fact is that all badasses take risks, and I like to encourage it. Even though it is a form of combat we train, non-athletes sign up all the time. It takes a while to develop a body that is structurally sound for combat from scratch- But everybody wants to roll..

How many classes should be required to safely participate in free roll?

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Let em free roll from day 1. Just let em roll with a higher belt. If that's not available, have em do 50% drills on up to 100%.

Brandon, I smashed my nose bone through my face again so I'll call ya when I can talk better:^(

Frank, this is exactly what I (kind of) do. They can roll with me or Scotty at first. But it's just crazy how the most laid back dude can go full retard during free roll. For them it's the fight of their life, for us, it's Tuesday. I just want to prevent unnecessary injuries if possible. Thank you for your response.

Rick, I have always let everybody roll me or a Scott from the beginning and have had them tell me this is why they stayed. It's pretty much the reason I started this thread. But when classes get to big to monitor, I was thinking of issuing a mandate. I'm just gonna communicate with my best guys and have everybody on the same page. Pretty sure it's similar to the convo I'll have with Bran.

My pleasure