Best explanation I've seen for why Metamoris poaching EBI talent is bad for the sport

This is from Reddit user @renstheripper. Thread is at http://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments...g_fighters_on/

"It is a terrible business decision. Cannibalizing a young and growing market.

Put it this way. Person A sells fruit salad on a Monday and Person B sells fruit salad on a Thursday. The consumers want fruit salad so they buy it on a Monday and a Thursday. Person A signs exclusive use of apples. Person B now has no apple in their fruit salad. Person A spruiks their apple content. Consumers now may not buy the apple-less fruit salad because they like apples and they are now cornered into buying fruit salad once a week when they liked having it twice. They now are driven to find an alternative on a Thursday and they find something they like. Sometimes they even have the alternative on a Monday which means less for Person A too.

Cut to the apple farmer, he is getting more per apple but selling less apples. His demand has stagnated and now his only ability to garner income is linked to one source. Other fruit producers are selling their produce to pie makers and juicers. They are more prominent in the market, their products are growing and becoming better. The apple farmer spends his income on a G in a Gi CD single and feels better.

What has happened to the entire market? Whilst once there may have been a market of 100 purchasers a week, it is down to 80. Each seller used to have 50 customers each. Now Person A has retained 45 as some have moved onto another product altogether and Person B is down to 35 customers because some motherfuckers like apples. Without a solid competitor, Person A's fruit salad has no peer to help drive innovation. Their fruit salad has not improved. The market has shrunk and they have capped growth. Before the entire market was able to grow to a more sustainable level they capped the growth potential of the entire market. Is 50% or 100% better? 50% of a 200 consumer market is better than 100% of an 80 consumer market.

TL;DR - Limiting a total market in a growth industry is done at the peril of all stakeholders. It is a level of dumb that is immeasurable. Never did the purchase of a competing event's PPV affect Metamoris. To then affect their quality is to limit the entire $ value of the market which means less investors, promoters, competitors and consumers."

I'll drink to that.

Damn....that pretty much sums it up.

Yea, he's right. I feel like by Metamoris trying to tie these players down they are not in any way contributing to the growth of jiu jitsu, but instead, stunting it. I believe the most the would be able to compete is once a month. And Metamoris only puts on a card like every four month, Ibjjf has lame rules, and then that leaves ADCC. That doesn't sound exciting for the Garry Tonnons, Eddie Cummings, Nathan Orchards, Geo, and Boogies of the world.

It's not one hundred percent about the money with these guys, it's about the fight and working towards being the best. I wouldn't want to be limited to 3 tournaments..I feel like it somewhat kills the excitement. These guys FIGHT. Like a super fight this weekend then EBI next and to weeks from now go to some ADCC trials..then who knows from there. Then they do seminars in between and stuff. That's the friggin life. You cannot put a limit on these guys lifestyle like that. And honestly, limiting their freedom like that also limits their growth. Metamoris is close-minded and just isn't about how these competitors do what they do.

After listening to EBR #85.... seems this issue might be completely personal on Ralek's part, not business at all.

One thing seems clear though, this feud between a certain portion of the Gracie family and Eddie isn't going away.

Poaching is not allowing the sport to grow at all, and that's why there are many different MMA organizations and not just one. Jiu Jitsu is a living and breathing martial art that needs space to grow in all areas, not to be restricted from everyone. A contract is cool to a certain extent, but not the way Ralek is going about it. I kind of understand why Dillon Danis signed because that type of offer for a 21 year old sounds good (I would have made the same choice at that age). Will he learn from it, heck yeah, but who are we to blame him though.

Tori sums it up real well though that being tied down to only approximately three tournaments a year is like drowning someone or taking candy from a child. It's something we all love and enjoy why would you want to limit anyone's potential? Another factor to contribute into all of this is what if they get hurt? Then this keeps them from competing and who knows how long they have till their next tournament. Hell don't forget about us the fans who love to watch these top level guys compete, and only being able to watch them a couple times a year is just crappy. This is sad to see people have to limit jiu jitsu because of a feud or difference in beliefs, but as for me I am a bigger fan of EBI not to say I wont watch this sport wherever its representing.

Unfortunately I feel like Metamoris is trying to become like the UFC in a sense. Where they want to be the biggest promotion out there. I mean Exclusive contracts to compete in a grappling event. That makes no sense, especially because Metamoris only puts out 2 (or so) events a year. They lost an amazing competitor in Garry Tonnon, he has the most submission wins in Metamoris, and greed has pushed him away. SHame....

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Originally Posted by Keith D

Unfortunately I feel like Metamoris is trying to become like the UFC in a sense. Where they want to be the biggest promotion out there. I mean Exclusive contracts to compete in a grappling event. That makes no sense, especially because Metamoris only puts out 2 (or so) events a year. They lost an amazing competitor in Garry Tonnon, he has the most submission wins in Metamoris, and greed has pushed him away. SHame....

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From what Eddie was saying in EBR#85, it kinda sounds like these deals were not exclusive. It sounded more like it was a contract, and it was being offered under the condition that the athlete not compete in EBI3. It was a deliberate and directed attack on EBI, and had nothing to do with exclusivity at all.

It kinda sounded like Eddie wasn't totally sure, and it sounded like so far no one has shown him one of these "exclusive contracts"... but it was sure sounding fishy...

And remember as far as we know, only EBI competitors were even approached about deals.... are all the other metamoris participants under contract now too? It sure doesn't sound like it.

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Originally Posted by Craig Murray

After listening to EBR #85.... seems this issue might be completely personal on Ralek's part, not business at all.

One thing seems clear though, this feud between a certain portion of the Gracie family and Eddie isn't going away.

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I think business it's a mix of personal and business, but it's a bad business decision. I do think Ralek wants to corner the market on these sub only PPV type of events, and he's looking to almost do a Netflix type of service. He's going about it the wrong way. His exclusive contract would allow Garry Tonon to compete in IBJJF or ADCC events, but just not other big PPV style events like EBI, Polaris, etc. It's a bad idea. Grappling isn't to the point yet where Metamoris is competing over the same dollar as EBI. They're trying to get the same consumer base, and eliminating guys like Tonon or Danis from the market is beyond retarded.

I don't care what anyone says. It's almost impossible to find grapplers that can virtually guarantee exciting matches. Even really exciting grapplers can have awful matches. Tonon and Danis are a few of the young guns that can do that. Marcelo Garcia is more or less retired. Bill Cooper isn't competing much and is basically gone. Jeff Glover has started developing a style that is still sub oriented but more defensive/counter style and less over the top offense. Palhares can't be counted on to show up or be found. I can think of others but you get the point.

It's tough to find up and comers that fit the bill. A sport about control is always going to be a hard sell. Tonon was a big one that could help, and Metamoris definitely fucked up by losing the only guy to get a sub on their last card.

At this point, it's up to the competitors to due what's best for the sport. Hopefully they will do the right thing. I have more faith in them than athletes from other sports. Garry is a good example of that

It's a strange one... Ralek seems to have a parade of ex UFC fighters in metamoris now, and probably under the same type of deal they offered Tonon. I get that angle and trying to appeal to the more casual fan but I just think grappling and sub only ppv events are just lighting up and drawing peoples attention and giving jiu jitsu a platform outside of MMA to be showcased.

And that's all great but it's not at the level where you need to be trying shitty tricks to sign top guys to exclusive deals and kill competition, that ruins it for the fans of the sport and the competitors.

Somebody needs to tell Ralek this isn't WCW vs WWF, and shows aren't going head to head competing for the same audience all on the same night.

But he is making it on the same night. Same night as Polaris I believe. His will make twice in a row on this next one if I'm correct. You're right, there's no reason for it.

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Originally Posted by J.J Weatherall

Ralek seems to have a parade of ex UFC fighters in metamoris now, and probably under the same type of deal they offered Tonon..

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I'd love to see a contract. I'm skeptical that there are non-compete or exclusivity clauses in whatever contract he's offering.

I would be curious to know how this played out with Tonon... did they send him a contract and he read it, sent it to his lawyer, and then declined? I doubt it. I suspect most of it was done verbally.

I'd bet $1000 there is ZERO exclusivity required by any contracts given out by Ralek and Metamoris up to the date of this post.

At least, in writing. Any verbal agreements regarding requirements to be issued said contract are withstanding from this wager.

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Originally Posted by Tori Applegate

But he is making it on the same night. Same night as Polaris I believe. His will make twice in a row on this next one if I'm correct. You're right, there's no reason for it.

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damn, I never knew that. If that's true then it seems a bit much to be deliberately scheduling events like that, on top of the possible sketchy contract offers they seem to be offering. Polaris is September 12th in Cardiff and I'm going...so that's one less ppv buy, in your face Ralek!

i think i was a direct attack to try sabotage EBI. ralek (or higher powers in the family) are threatened that eddie and the system have become way more accepted in the mainstream bjj community. They see the writing on the wall. no gi, sub only is taking over sons!!
why cant we all just be friends :)

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Originally Posted by Craig Murray

I'd love to see a contract. I'm skeptical that there are non-compete or exclusivity clauses in whatever contract he's offering.

I would be curious to know how this played out with Tonon... did they send him a contract and he read it, sent it to his lawyer, and then declined? I doubt it. I suspect most of it was done verbally.

I'd bet $1000 there is ZERO exclusivity required by any contracts given out by Ralek and Metamoris up to the date of this post.

At least, in writing. Any verbal agreements regarding requirements to be issued said contract are withstanding from this wager.

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I don't know what it is, but it most definitely prevented Danis from doing EBI 3, because Danis wanted to do it. Because there's almost no money in this sport, Danis went the Metamoris route.

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Originally Posted by Mike Nall

I don't know what it is, but it most definitely prevented Danis from doing EBI 3, because Danis wanted to do it. Because there's almost no money in this sport, Danis went the Metamoris route.

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Yeah, I'm sure he was prevented from doing EBI. What I was suggesting is that the "we'll give you this contract if you bail on EBI" part might very well have been verbal, and that the contract itself might not have had any kind of exclusivity clause in it.

Look we don't really know why Ralek did what he did, and when it's all said and done he's just a G in a Gi.