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Is anybody else surprised that Ryron threatened with rubber guard? Of course, it was a bluff because he didn't really know what to do - he said as much in the Gracie breakdown and on Twitter. It was as if he had exhausted all of his options, and then decided to try out something he saw on YouTube.
Ryron's a 4th degree black belt who went the distance with André Galvão. So why would he do that? The announcers glossed over that moment, but to me it was an eye-opener.
i highly doubt he "exhausted all his options," he was probably just using it to stop the posture and take a second to gain his bearings. According to guys he has trained with he's an absolute killer, but with a beast like Barnett on top of you you're going to have to slow it down a little bit
I watched their breakdown of the fight to see what they would say about the RG type thing I heard he did. It appears it was just to slow things down or bait a bit. In showing the RG he does not hug the knee and he holds the foot instead of his forearm behind his ankle. Those seem like critical details against a larger guy to protect your knee.
The announcers glossed over every moment of that fight. The commentary was unbearable. They didn't make any attempt to even discuss the match at all. The hardly mentioned what was happening on the mat during that match. Rener's commentary, for the fights he commentated on, was engaging, passionate and informative. He should really be the main commentator for all the Metamoris matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett Grayson
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Ric
I double agree. How can they have got that so wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by milojitsu
Ryron hung in there and held his own admirably I thought, he didn't get smashed like how I've heard people say he would. But I honestly, no joke, couldn't help but wonder what would be possible if guys like him took a concerted effort toward learning the 10p system. His high guard/rubber guard etc. did keep him in it for a little which is probably a testament to his mat time. He had him in mission control and what appeared to be crackhead a couple times but there was no advancing thru the paths or sequences, more just (like guy above said) posture management and control. You could tell that even though it's traditional, he's definitely got a pretty nice guard otherwise. Who knows what he woulda been capable of if he had a whole system there. Additionally, it seemed that Barnett's toehold came from the Russian Cowboy and I had checked out a couple videos on the Zogoedia a couple days ago talking about sequences and control from there. Obviously that's not 'traditional' and/or Gracie JJ moreso than Sambo or catch wrestling so someone who had a system there would appear to have the upper hand. I thought Ryron brought the fight and showed that he's formidable, no doubt, but you could argue that it was Josh's greater understanding of that position that allowed him to secure the finish.
What I thought was an interesting sequence was right when Josh got the take down and had double underhooks and was looking to dominator pass with it. I remember Eddie saying at a seminar that while it's a long-term investment to be able to pass like that, it could be majorly effective when mastered.
Just rewatched it. There was a moment in Ryron's 'rubber' guard that he had broken Josh's posture, had him in mission control and was sorrrta zombieing, half-heartedly, but just didn't take the available path to New York. I rewinded it twice and it was just frustrating to see. As solid and fundamentally rooted he is, it was just frustrating to see a golden opportunity like that not taken advantage of because of lack of investment in the system. It was good to watch though cuz I think something that might go overlooked is that there is something to be said about having that self-defense background, and then supplementing it with 10p specific techniques. Earlier on too Ryron had some nice stomp to butterfly game, but Josh showed what everyone knew I guess. He was an absolute beast and Ryron going for a sloppy reverse triangle from bottom of side control cost him. It put a leg lock guy right in his wheelhouse.
A lot of respect for Ryron for stepping up and taking the fight but the night as a whole was awful. I found the gi matches painful to watch for the most part. Fell asleep and missed Clark Gracies fight but other than Keenan/Xanje, there were NO G's in their gis that night... In terms of commentating, I like how Glover will add some fun to it but Bas didn't seem to have the grappling knowledge to keep the commentating going, he seemed so out of place. Rener did a good job and showed the passion he always shows.
I have to disagree about the Gi matches. It may be that the Gi matches don't cater to the no-gi crowd more than anything but Clark/Satoshi were going after it and Keenan/Xande showed a lot of cool technique. There was a lot to learn. I can respect if gi isn't your thing, but even the prelims had some bamf's with Michael Liera Jr., and it was pretty sick seeing Galvao and Kron in opposite corners coaching. You could hear Kron talking mad trash too lolll But yea I agree 100% Rener's a natural for that position. Him and Glover could make a great team, doing play by play and color, respectivelyQuote:
Originally Posted by Keith Kavanagh
Keenan and Xande was intense! I just looked up the Clark/Satoshi match, always going for it which is great. I have a lot of respect for the gi and anyone who competes at the highest level of anything but in comparison to the nogi matches and the standard that has been set by EVERY EBI, it didn't have the excitement factor I personally was looking for. Then again, Sonnen and Babalu was horrible to watch. Haha, I missed Krons trash talking, I'll check that out!
"He's going for the same sweep! That's all he's got!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Kavanagh
"He's playing like he's in IBJJF tournament! He's got no other moves!" lol
Almost as good as Rickons chicken sounds, hahaha
I know, wtf were they going on about, some random crap, and basically ignoring the match. I think it was while Keenan was commentating with them. Very unprofessional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric
It was also funny seeing Metamoris' Facebook threads, with a bunch of people making comments like, "you should try EBI rules, have you seen that?" Hilarious.
Would have been cool to see an attempt at a gag reflex from here.
Attachment 3322
Sweet screen-cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by gene k
Imagine if Ryron had submitted JB with a 10th planet submission, and all the fallout from it...
It would have been "assimilated" into GJJ somehow; that they've never been against it, just that you don't use it to begin with, but that when someone like Josh comes at you with his size and his forward-weight from your guard it's a good technique. That Grandfather Helio used to do it against old Luta Livre fighters in the 1950s all the time.
Haha, spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
I agree. You hear people all the time swear that the philosophy they practice is the only thing that matters. I don't feel a truly open minded fighter would base their game around just 10th planet specific techniques, or just Gracie Jiu Jitsu, or just catch wrestling or sambo, but rather would look to blend philosophies and take the best and what they like of each. You could sense the level of respect Josh had for Ryron in his interview after the fight. I liked this match a lot cuz it showed two totally different styles and how they can actually have some effectiveness against each other, though by neglecting another different style (Ryron's case with 10th planet) we saw a limitation in his game, despite the fact that he's a high, high level GJJ practitioner (i.e. a self-defense specialist) and held his own for a spell. For this reason, I love training at 10th planet cuz you can bring whatever style you dig to the table, and if it's effective, you're not gonna be, like, yelled at for using it. If it could be of benefit to people, then your rolls and training partners could all be mutually beneficial relationships. My goal is to hopefully develop a style that's a mega-hybrid beastly amalgamation of styles; dangerous from anywhere, scary guard (closed, open, half, rubber, spiral, you name it) and a lot of paths, ruthless top game, great on the feet, solid judo and wrestling, devastating leg locks, great in gi and no gi, ridiculous recovery, all built on a base of having unreal GJJ style self-defense in worst case scenarios. I think one thing that makes Anderson Silva so dangerous or a lot of these really high-level elite MMA fighters are the ones that have black belts in multiple disciplines, then you see them fight and realize they've blended a lot of styles and basically create an entirely new style just based off their effectiveness. Royce was no wrestling or sambo expert, he just knew GJJ. It was good enough to win the UFC then, but the fight vs. Ryron and Barnett showed that there has to be added layers to the game. Remember that Barnett has a 2nd degree black belt from Rigan Machado, so he wasn't about to be caught in the same armbar that Royce caught Kimo in. The weight difference between Kimo and Royce was probably greater than the difference between Ryron and Barnett, in fact. AND there were punches in the mix. In any case, it never hurts to be open-minded, imo:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiseop
I was amazed at how Keenan worked his worm guard on Xande. He set up his lapel attack by using Xande's belt to hold position until he could get control of the lapel. To do that when you know Xande has been training to stop it shows how advanced Keenan's system is. ...and Satoshi is a beast! Clark looked looked good. Especially his hair.
Universal Jiu Jitsu my friend. I'm with you. I want my Jiu Jitsu to work in all scenarios, even if the guy's wearing a gi coming at me with a tomahawk in a football gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Arman Fathi
Dudes. The best rg player at Josh's weight would have a hard time pulling it off. He keeps you completely flat and pins your hips.
I would like to see what Vinny, Amir, or Big Red could do in that posish. A flying Kung fu during transition could compromise him, but taking through the path would be ruff!
I completely believe in the rg. But damn. It's the friggin Warmaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
Where Ryron ultimately failed was in not giving himself a chance to find out. He didn't execute full on balls to the wall rubber guard and he couldn't at least bail to jiu claw. I mean with his talent, being Ryron Gracie, having all this undeniable mat time, I know for certain that he'd have a punchers chance to snatch an arm. He's a dangerous armlock guy, and I mean dangerous. His chefs specialty. Wasting motherfuckers that roll up to his gym left and right son. I'm sure if he landed in jiu claw, he coulda thrown a quick combo into the mix or take the sweep, that's all you'd hope for. Obviously Barnetts a beast but Ryron legit has no shortage of big dudes to roll with, albeit less skilled. But the fact that the players you're coaching forgot the play when you signaled for an 80 yard Hail Mary is inexcusable. Ryron didn't draw a play in his play book to give himself the best available chance in that specific scenario. He didn't give his talent a chance.
BooaQuote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mayall
I love 10thPlanetJJ and the family it has created and I love and also respect GJJ and Ryron. He definitely admitted he really didn't know enough about rubber guard to implement it correctly. But, I just thought it was awesome that he went to it. Just that instinct to use the rubber guard in a moment like that of a match says a lot. I always feel like they respect Eddie and the system. The only thing they really seem to be against is the IBJJF system and probably Gracie Barra, etc, for all of the sport point based schools. What Ryron and Rener teach in their self defense system is "head and arm" control for controlling the opponent in a fight. And it's obvious that Rubber Guard is just a much more effective position that accomplishes the same thing and, in my opinion, would be much more frustrating and tiring for an opponent caught in it. Love and respect to all bjj
So you mean Gracie Academy Combat Scenario #143420 "Indian G in a Gi"Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mayall
Josh is also familiar with the system. I think it was one of the first times he was on JRE he said he doesn't use rubberguard offensively, but he has learned it to be able to defend. So yeah, add that knowledge to his killer top pressure and see what you can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
I think Josh Barnett has something he calls 'Snapping' the RG on one of his Attacking the Guard DVD. Is anyone familiar with that technique? I will definitely be checking out his stuff, it looks interesting.
I think Amir has Trained extensively with Josh, as well as Adlai, and Travis Newaza. He knows the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
Quote:
Originally Posted by NameLikeNoOther
that was a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.. atleast in that DVD his mission control dummy was doing it wrong we all know the best way to take away RG is to understand RG which Barnett has done. No one single escape will work 100 percent of the time.
I am still going to check out Barnett's DVD's there is probably some useful stuff. Was Ryron's attempt at RG more legit than the Dummy in the DVD? I still haven't seen M6 or the DVD's.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennett
I just saw this recently, was pretty cool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62fb...dVAceQ&index=1
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
I was actually very impressed that Ryron was able to have the success that he did in that position. Josh generally smashes my rubber guard. I've only been to New York maybe 5 times, and I had a gogo deep enough once to make him roll to his back to escape. He promptly re-swept me afterwards.
I think I've said this before, but in my opinion, Josh Barnett is the best grappler alive today. Meaning, I would favor him in any possible match. I think he beats Galvao, Keenan, Vinny, Xande; I've trained with all of them. Cyborg and Buchecha are the only interesting matches... but after watching them both struggle mightily against Dean at the 2013 ADCC, I expect that Josh beats them.
I'm interested in hearing more, Amir. Perhaps it's an age and BJJ bias, but I don't see Barnett beating Buchecha or Bernando Faria, maybe someone like Lo, even who is smaller. Just curious. :)