Using techniques in training that you can't use in competition

Here's my dilemma, as an active competitor at the blue belt/intermediate division there are obvious restrictions on a lot of submissions and positions (heel hooks, knee reaping, neck cranks/twisters) that I use regularly in training. Would it be in my best interest to avoid using these techniques at practice or keep using them anyway? I want to be confident in all these techniques as I make the move to the advanced divisions over the next few years, but I also want to make the most out of my precious mat time while I'm preparing for competitions right now. Just last week at U.S. Grappling I got called for knee reaping in Ashi (absolutely no downward pressure on the knee). Oh by the way, bicep slicers and calf slicers were illegal outside of the advanced division (2 of my highest % subs) and when I asked the owner of the event why that was he said it was simply because "those are more advanced submissions". Don't mean to go off on a tangent, but that's frustrating. Anyway, looking for opinions on how I should spend my time :)

All part of the process. I've entered the truck a lot in training and it sucks having to put a red light on certain submissions, especially the calf crank which is super high percentage. If competition matters to you, play by the rules and train how you will compete. But eventually the idea will be that your basic game will become more refined then the neck cranks/heel hooks/twisters will only add additional weapons. It's similar to why you might tell a white belt to not go for footlocks right away and just focus on passing guard. Passing guard is such an important skill to have and a tough one to master. It takes time, and the early years to my understanding are to be spent getting the basics down. If we're in it for life (as I'd hope people who'd invest their time on the forums would be), then there's no rush. We'll get there eventually.

I would absolutely practice these techniques during rolling in class etc. I am already teaching my son some leg locks (he is 13) and we routinely do them while rolling. I taught him the defense first so when its applied he knows how to get out without shredding his knees and slowly but surely adding it into his game. By the time he's 18 he will have already mastered them and be ready for mens advanced. There is really no other way to learn it properly without doing it live.

We had a rule at my old gym that i liked.... if you are a blue belt or above then you can attack (and be attacked) by leg locks. White belts have enough to worry about with just getting the basics down so no leg attacks on them.

I agree with Arman "If competition matters to you, play by the rules and train how you will compete."

But on the topic of "Advanced" submissions I honestly think it comes down to event organizers not wanting competitors to get injured. I don't think the submissions are necessarily more complex; I think that these submissions are more likely to cause severe injury because people don't know when to tap to them. The pain from a submission like a bicep crush from spider web can be bearable all the way through to the point of injury. Obviously people who don't know any better will try to twist and rip their own leg out of a leg lock. Its kind of self propagating; people spaz out of holds or try to muscle through because they don't need to train or learn how to defend them, because they are illegal.... Anyway, I agree with you super frustrating.

I hope some of the Browns and Blacks weigh in here, I would love to hear their opinions on training strategies.

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Originally Posted by Martin Harris

I hope some of the Browns and Blacks weigh in here, I would love to hear their opinions on training strategies.

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haha^^ Sioda.

But I do feel what youre saying. I have that issue too.

I figure train everything and then only roll within the rules 2 weeks out from comp.

I think you have to practice everything, even if you can't use it in competition. We want to be the best all around we can be. Just think of it as a handicap or challenge. You have to go to war without all of your tool belt.

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I can explain my philosophy.

I don't care about winning a tournament. I don't care about medals or belts or swords or blowjobs or money or whatever the hell else one might receive as an explicit or implicit reward for victory. I care about maximizing my potential as a martial artist, which means exploring as many techniques as possible, understanding them both offensively and defensively, and making them indistinguishable from an innate part of myself. I don't want to train to beat the random purple or brown belts that may show up to my local tournament; I want to train to beat Buchecha and Cyborg and Josh Barnett and Andre Galvao. And really, I don't even care about them; they are merely a convenient barometer against which I can calibrate myself.

If I win because I managed to sneak both hooks in barely enough to get back points, what have I won? If I win because my opponent was disqualified for reaping my leg, what have I won? The only victory I recognize is to learn technique, apply it, and hone it in the heat of competition.

That said, I am not a berzerk animal when I compete. I am a martial artist. I am relaxed and confident and aware of my environment, my proximity to the edge of the mat, the rules of this particular competition, my opponent's body, the words and advice flowing from his cornermen and my own. My attacks are deliberate, and prior to stepping on the tatâmi I have already considered deeply my strategy and my opponent's, taking into account how I feel in that moment about myself and about my entire technical repertoire. There are many reasons I will jettison a particular technique at this point. If my foot is hurt, I will cast aside 15 years of wrestling and pull guard. If my opponent lacks a neck, I'm not looking for guillotines. And if bicep slicers are illegal, I won't utilize them.

Mastery of a technique means you *don't* depend on it. If you do depend on it, it is the technique that has mastered you.

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Originally Posted by Amir Allam

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I can explain my philosophy.

I don't care about winning a tournament. I don't care about medals or belts or swords or blowjobs or money or whatever the hell else one might receive as an explicit or implicit reward for victory. I care about maximizing my potential as a martial artist, which means exploring as many techniques as possible, understanding them both offensively and defensively, and making them indistinguishable from an innate part of myself. I don't want to train to beat the random purple or brown belts that may show up to my local tournament; I want to train to beat Buchecha and Cyborg and Josh Barnett and Andre Galvao. And really, I don't even care about them; they are merely a convenient barometer against which I can calibrate myself.

If I win because I managed to sneak both hooks in barely enough to get back points, what have I won? If I win because my opponent was disqualified for reaping my leg, what have I won? The only victory I recognize is to learn technique, apply it, and hone it in the heat of competition.

That said, I am not a berzerk animal when I compete. I am a martial artist. I am relaxed and confident and aware of my environment, my proximity to the edge of the mat, the rules of this particular competition, my opponent's body, the words and advice flowing from his cornermen and my own. My attacks are deliberate, and prior to stepping on the tatâmi I have already considered deeply my strategy and my opponent's, taking into account how I feel in that moment about myself and about my entire technical repertoire. There are many reasons I will jettison a particular technique at this point. If my foot is hurt, I will cast aside 15 years of wrestling and pull guard. If my opponent lacks a neck, I'm not looking for guillotines. And if bicep slicers are illegal, I won't utilize them.

Mastery of a technique means you *don't* depend on it. If you do depend on it, it is the technique that has mastered you.

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This needs to be on a poster in every gym! Thanks for your eloquent words of wisdom.

That was bad the fuck ass Amir. Thanks for articulating that so well. I guess that's the approach I'm striving for, but haven't thought of it that deeply or come close to accomplishing that kind of awareness. Competition is the same way for me, it's not about winning a medal or trophy, it's about proving to myself I can do what I know I'm capable of under pressure against another skilled practicioner. I just believe the varying rule sets disrupt that

Edit: but if blow jobs did come with gold medals, I would care a lot more.. let's be honest

Even though Amir gave a tough to beat answer, I will go ahead and respond. A number of people I have met only care about IBJJF. A huge portion of what Eddie shows is illegal for them. There are black belts that can be leg locked at will by blue belts AND EVEN WHITE BELTS. I'm not talking about a one time catch, I'm talking about pretty consistently... Anything off the reap and a number of other things are still illegal at IBJJF at Black Belt. So if that's your only goal, don't train those things. Train mainly sweeps, double guard pulls and MAYBE a little passing. Its a point game after all, statistically that is the techniques to know to be an IBJJF champ.

Even for IBJJF though, the things that become legal at brown... you might want to start training those now, because no one cares about wins at the blue belt level anyway in the long term and if you wait until brown to start trying you will be a white belt at those things and it will be hard to catch up.

Or, you could train everything like we do at my gym (and pretty much every 10th Planet gym I've been too) and shoot for an ultimate competition goal of something like ADCC or EBI with all subs legal. Or Grapplers quest advanced, Or Gracie Tournaments at (soon to be) purple and above, or NAGA at ANY SKILL LEVEL IN NO GI.

I personally would be ashamed to be a black belt if there were scores of white belts out there that could smash me in a certain rule set... How about you?

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Originally Posted by Amir Allam

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I can explain my philosophy.

I don't care about winning a tournament. I don't care about medals or belts or swords or blowjobs or money or whatever the hell else one might receive as an explicit or implicit reward for victory. I care about maximizing my potential as a martial artist, which means exploring as many techniques as possible, understanding them both offensively and defensively, and making them indistinguishable from an innate part of myself. I don't want to train to beat the random purple or brown belts that may show up to my local tournament; I want to train to beat Buchecha and Cyborg and Josh Barnett and Andre Galvao. And really, I don't even care about them; they are merely a convenient barometer against which I can calibrate myself.

If I win because I managed to sneak both hooks in barely enough to get back points, what have I won? If I win because my opponent was disqualified for reaping my leg, what have I won? The only victory I recognize is to learn technique, apply it, and hone it in the heat of competition.

That said, I am not a berzerk animal when I compete. I am a martial artist. I am relaxed and confident and aware of my environment, my proximity to the edge of the mat, the rules of this particular competition, my opponent's body, the words and advice flowing from his cornermen and my own. My attacks are deliberate, and prior to stepping on the tatâmi I have already considered deeply my strategy and my opponent's, taking into account how I feel in that moment about myself and about my entire technical repertoire. There are many reasons I will jettison a particular technique at this point. If my foot is hurt, I will cast aside 15 years of wrestling and pull guard. If my opponent lacks a neck, I'm not looking for guillotines. And if bicep slicers are illegal, I won't utilize them.

Mastery of a technique means you *don't* depend on it. If you do depend on it, it is the technique that has mastered you.

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Masterful.

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Originally Posted by Amir Allam

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I can explain my philosophy.

I don't care about winning a tournament. I don't care about medals or belts or swords or blowjobs

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Nah b. I can't get with you on this one.