knee popped gogo clinch

hey guys this has probably been posted before but its always good to get some experienced opinions. so we were live drilling full guard passes and sweeps/subs in class last week. so i was of course playing rubber guard. got free new york. went to chill dog then kung fu moved my foot into position. he blocked by putting his hand on my foot.
i tried to force my foot back into place and we all heard 3 loud pops.
doctors have told me its my LCL (lateral cruciate ligament) and my PCC (posterior cruciate corner) no specifics on how long ill be out but its only a minor injury i believe, because im able to walk (slowly) and it is able to bare weight.
just wondering if anyone has had this injury and what the recovery time was, what measures did you put into place after the fact.
thanks guys

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Originally Posted by Tomdavis1029

i tried to force my foot back into place and we all heard 3 loud pops.

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There's your problem. I've found an overall principle of jiu jitsu to be that when one door closes, another door opens. In other words, every quarter second to half second the position you're doing or going for goes from being the best option for the situation to the worst option for the situation. If you feel a path that is blocked and it would take brute strength and FORCE to make it happen, reconsider if it's worth it for the sake of longevity. Go for something else or if you don't know what to do, do nothing and observe. I tend to learn more that way. Even if it means getting smashed, I live to fight another day and get to examine the position in depth later. Staying on the mats consistently will get you better than forcing techniques and saying you pulled them off.

I had the same problem exactly one year ago. Just one pop. I almost couldn't walk next day but I didn't go to the doctor. I bought a supporter (zamst) and began training after resting about three weeks. I tried to get back my flexibility doing yoga once or twice a week. Last month I was able to do the lotus position again without using my hands (just flipping the legs in a seated position). I try to be extra careful with my rubber guard nowadays. I don't use the gogo clinch. And I've got super flexible with my uninjured leg that used to be the weak side rubber guard.

The key is hip flexibility.... if you have really flexible hips the pressure is removed from the knee.

I had the exact same injury from the go go clinch last August. I started pt almost right away and it has helped. Im not sure if its a age issue or what (im 48) but 13 months later and I still dont think its healed all the way. I still have some pain and stiffness from time to time and my range of motion isnt any where near what it used to be. But like everyone else has said it has forced me to work on other parts of my game which will only make me better in the long run.

When he's pushing the foot, swim under the armpit of the attacking hand, connect your hands. I call it the straight clinch because from there you just pull him into the straight jacket. This also removes his grip.

Sucks you're hurt. Get better man

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Originally Posted by Arman Fathi

There's your problem. I've found an overall principle of jiu jitsu to be that when one door closes, another door opens. In other words, every quarter second to half second the position you're doing or going for goes from being the best option for the situation to the worst option for the situation. If you feel a path that is blocked and it would take brute strength and FORCE to make it happen, reconsider if it's worth it for the sake of longevity. Go for something else or if you don't know what to do, do nothing and observe. I tend to learn more that way. Even if it means getting smashed, I live to fight another day and get to examine the position in depth later. Staying on the mats consistently will get you better than forcing techniques and saying you pulled them off.

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Yea brother I figured that out after the fact, I knew after that I should have hipped out to decrease the pressure on my knee. But thank you for the idea of constant reassessment never really thought about breaking it down that far.

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

When he's pushing the foot, swim under the armpit of the attacking hand, connect your hands. I call it the straight clinch because from there you just pull him into the straight jacket. This also removes his grip.

Sucks you're hurt. Get better man

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How do you get your leg that deep?

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Originally Posted by Eric Schuettenberg

I had the exact same injury from the go go clinch last August. I started pt almost right away and it has helped. Im not sure if its a age issue or what (im 48) but 13 months later and I still dont think its healed all the way. I still have some pain and stiffness from time to time and my range of motion isnt any where near what it used to be. But like everyone else has said it has forced me to work on other parts of my game which will only make me better in the long run.

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so you still have tightness, did you see a doctor or specialist to find out the extent of the damage

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Originally Posted by Jeff Baldwin

The key is hip flexibility.... if you have really flexible hips the pressure is removed from the knee.

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Yea I agree

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Originally Posted by Tomdavis1029

How do you get your leg that deep?

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It's in the same spot. It's your hand that swims. Instead of clinching at his neck clinch behind his far shoulder.

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

It's in the same spot. It's your hand that swims. Instead of clinching at his neck clinch behind his far shoulder.

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Ahh yea I get ya.

Be careful with the knee. I had a similar injury a while ago and i could walk. Walking wasn't the problem, torsion was, turning movements. It was about a month till i was rolling again. I don't wanna get your spirit down, you'll be okay. But be careful when healing, you might not notice anything during the day, when you walk around, until you're on the mats. Take care.

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Originally Posted by Tomdavis1029

so you still have tightness, did you see a doctor or specialist to find out the extent of the damage

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yes I had an MRI done by a dr who is the team surgeon for the St. Louis rams and St. Louis blues. He said I had a partial tear if my lcl. He opted against surgery and put me on pt. I did a follow up with him about 4 months after I was injured and he said it's just gonna take time to heal I just didn't think it would take this long

I'm gonna make a video for you guys. This comes up a lot. You have to pay attention to every detail and do things in a mechanically intelligent way, otherwise stuff like this is gonna happen.

I'm sorry you got hurt. But the good news is that you don't have to get hurt again.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

I'm gonna make a video for you guys. This comes up a lot. You have to pay attention to every detail and do things in a mechanically intelligent way, otherwise stuff like this is gonna happen.

I'm sorry you got hurt. But the good news is that you don't have to get hurt again.

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BMac's breakdown of RG is some of the most relatable, most informative helpful stuff you'll run across. Ive had 2 surgeries on my left knee and when I do RG the way he shows, I feel no stress at all on a knee that I have trouble walking on when it rains.
It's the truth.

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Originally Posted by Tomdavis1029

thank you for the idea of constant reassessment never really thought about breaking it down that far.

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It's the matrix, bro. You're just in the process of being unplugged.

Here's the thing with the rubber guard (RG) IMO... u have to take your stretches seriously, u can't just go into rubber guard not warmed up, not flexible, already having a history of a knee injury, and ect. You will most likely get injured IMO except for maybe a couple submissions from RG like the triangle from the meat hook. The Kung fu move seems to be the move that's the most dangerous for injuries as far as the basic path goes. I hear too many people talk about how they fucked up their knee using RG. I almost feel like it should be mentioned somewhere before people actually try doing RG moves. This way maybe less people will stop talking shit about the RG as well. Get your flexibility down than u can get into the RG stuff, anyways, your a white belt, focus on the basic BJJ stuff, u dont need RG yet.

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Originally Posted by Tomdavis1029

hey guys this has probably been posted before but its always good to get some experienced opinions. so we were live drilling full guard passes and sweeps/subs in class last week. so i was of course playing rubber guard. got free new york. went to chill dog then kung fu moved my foot into position. he blocked by putting his hand on my foot.
i tried to force my foot back into place and we all heard 3 loud pops.
doctors have told me its my LCL (lateral cruciate ligament) and my PCC (posterior cruciate corner) no specifics on how long ill be out but its only a minor injury i believe, because im able to walk (slowly) and it is able to bare weight.
just wondering if anyone has had this injury and what the recovery time was, what measures did you put into place after the fact.
thanks guys

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Great! it should be a sticky no joke. We don't need more people hurt doing RG.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

I'm gonna make a video for you guys. This comes up a lot. You have to pay attention to every detail and do things in a mechanically intelligent way, otherwise stuff like this is gonna happen.

I'm sorry you got hurt. But the good news is that you don't have to get hurt again.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

I'm gonna make a video for you guys. This comes up a lot. You have to pay attention to every detail and do things in a mechanically intelligent way, otherwise stuff like this is gonna happen.

I'm sorry you got hurt. But the good news is that you don't have to get hurt again.

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You're the man Brandon. Love showing people the YouTube video you made with the wrestler that dojo stormed you

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Originally Posted by Eric Schuettenberg

yes I had an MRI done by a dr who is the team surgeon for the St. Louis rams and St. Louis blues. He said I had a partial tear if my lcl. He opted against surgery and put me on pt. I did a follow up with him about 4 months after I was injured and he said it's just gonna take time to heal I just didn't think it would take this long

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You're scarin me doc. Can you gun it to 88 and I'll stop myself from forcing shit

The golden rule I follow is to make sure my knee is as close or closer to my chest than my foot. Guys get into trouble when either they reef their own foot towards their chest or their opponent does while they have their knee extended out. If your knee is up against your chest, you can't get hurt.

As for recovery, you need to stick to PT everyday. Single leg squats, balancing movements etc. Do them everyday and start them as soon as you can. Keep moving. I've popped both my knees over time, the knee which I started recovery movements asap and stuck with it everyday was fine in a month and the knee I slacked on took 4 months. (both were partial lcl tears)

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Originally Posted by Ben Eddy

The golden rule I follow is to make sure my knee is as close or closer to my chest than my foot. Guys get into trouble when either they reef their own foot towards their chest or their opponent does while they have their knee extended out. If your knee is up against your chest, you can't get hurt.

As for recovery, you need to stick to PT everyday. Single leg squats, balancing movements etc. Do them everyday and start them as soon as you can. Keep moving. I've popped both my knees over time, the knee which I started recovery movements asap and stuck with it everyday was fine in a month and the knee I slacked on took 4 months. (both were partial lcl tears)

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How were your pain levels Ben?

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Originally Posted by Tomdavis1029

How were your pain levels Ben?

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Multiple pops when they happened. Unwalkable first couple days. Limpable for a week. Able to start PT and feeling slow recovery each day after about 5-7 days.

If you're still limping bad two weeks out, it's probably worse than a partial tear. But big red had a complete tear that he didn't figure out until 6 months to a year afterwards. So who knows. Everyone is a little different. I think that has a lot to do with which one you injured. Mine were both LCL.

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Originally Posted by Ben Eddy

Multiple pops when they happened. Unwalkable first couple days. Limpable for a week. Able to start PT and feeling slow recovery each day after about 5-7 days.

If you're still limping bad two weeks out, it's probably worse than a partial tear. But big red had a complete tear that he didn't figure out until 6 months to a year afterwards. So who knows. Everyone is a little different. I think that has a lot to do with which one you injured. Mine were both LCL.

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Sounds close to mine. I'm wearing like compression bandages on the knee that's effected. But can walk with a limp and it's been like a week.

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Originally Posted by Ben Eddy

The golden rule I follow is to make sure my knee is as close or closer to my chest than my foot.

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+1. That's a money detail.

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Originally Posted by Tomdavis1029

Sounds close to mine. I'm wearing like compression bandages on the knee that's effected. But can walk with a limp and it's been like a week.

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Start working it man. I don't prescribe to the whole rest and ice mantra. It's always recovered faster for me when I was constantly working it throughout the day, staying active. I saw a huge difference between the one I rested on, iced and was lazy and the one I religiously worked hard on each day. I don't mean roll to soon though, just PT stuff. If it feels worse the next day then yea you worked it a bit too hard.

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Originally Posted by Ben Eddy

Start working it man. I don't prescribe to the whole rest and ice mantra. It's always recovered faster for me when I was constantly working it throughout the day, staying active. I saw a huge difference between the one I rested on, iced and was lazy and the one I religiously worked hard on each day. I don't mean roll to soon though, just PT stuff. If it feels worse the next day then yea you worked it a bit too hard.

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Cheers brother. I'm finding if I rest it to much it's feels weaker, stiffer and all together worse. I'll start some stretches and lighter excercise and build. Life saver!

You got a link Bro?

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Originally Posted by William Schrimsher

BMac's breakdown of RG is some of the most relatable, most informative helpful stuff you'll run across. Ive had 2 surgeries on my left knee and when I do RG the way he shows, I feel no stress at all on a knee that I have trouble walking on when it rains.
It's the truth.

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I've injured the LCL's in both knees a combined 10 times in the last 20 years, though incredibly never in rubber guard - it always happens in bizzarre situations like when I spin to take the back or in the truck or shooting for a low single. It always happens with a really loud click like somebody flopping onto an old couch. Anyway, my recovery timeline is almost exactly the same every time:
- It pops, doesn't hurt immediately, just feels kind of fuzzy.
- The next morning, I can't bend the leg and can't put weight on it without severe pain.
- 2 days out I can walk and slightly bend it
- 4 days out and I'm back to cycling and yoga
- 1 week out, I'm doing moderate-weight (~225 for me) squats and light rolling
- 2 weeks out, I'm doing everything 100% but not doing any risky moves with it
- a month out, I'm doing everything 100%
- 6 months out, I can no longer tell it's hurt

So basically, it doesn't stop me from training for very long; around 4 or 5 days. However, it still hurts and aches for about 6 months. In my experience, you don't want to just rest with it straight for more than the first day or two; after that, start moving on it.

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Originally Posted by apygav

You got a link Bro?

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I'm at the Decatur moon. I get my stuff live xD
be patient. he's gonna make an instructional

This happened to me as a blue belt in competition. Same scenario, a strong wrestler was using pressure to fight the gogo with his hand and my knee popped. I was out for about a month and maybe another month before it felt strong. I was flat on my back and not as flexible then as I am now. It was also an incentive to work fast next time to grab my foot from behind their head and pull it to assist or work the sweep and go to something different. Also when their hand is on your foot you can grab their hand and work from there with that free leg.

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Originally Posted by Amir Allam

I've injured the LCL's in both knees a combined 10 times in the last 20 years, though incredibly never in rubber guard - it always happens in bizzarre situations like when I spin to take the back or in the truck or shooting for a low single. It always happens with a really loud click like somebody flopping onto an old couch. Anyway, my recovery timeline is almost exactly the same every time:
- It pops, doesn't hurt immediately, just feels kind of fuzzy.
- The next morning, I can't bend the leg and can't put weight on it without severe pain.
- 2 days out I can walk and slightly bend it
- 4 days out and I'm back to cycling and yoga
- 1 week out, I'm doing moderate-weight (~225 for me) squats and light rolling
- 2 weeks out, I'm doing everything 100% but not doing any risky moves with it
- a month out, I'm doing everything 100%
- 6 months out, I can no longer tell it's hurt

So basically, it doesn't stop me from training for very long; around 4 or 5 days. However, it still hurts and aches for about 6 months. In my experience, you don't want to just rest with it straight for more than the first day or two; after that, start moving on it.

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Cheers Amir I'm stretching going to go through some weights in the next couple of days.

haha i'll book a flight :) thanks man