Printable View
Hi all,
wondering if anyone can help, Rolling with a pro MMA guy last night and he kept putting me in Judo SC then stepping over my head with the top leg, as I started to defend he would bait me into a kimora or force the head and arm - he had a good few kilo on me but was wondering if anyone has dealt with this kinda game?
Thanks
Sorry, what's Judo Side Control? Kesa gatame? If so and he has that near arm, you're in deep doo doo. Clarify a bit as I train judo, too, and can help.
well its weird because I had both my arms and he was letting me go under his leg with my hands and he would switch to arm tri or he was baiting me to push the leg off my head and getting the Americana grrrr
Judo side would be a side control facing my head with the far side under hook and the the top leg posted up for base and pressure, could be Kesa gatame ha
Being a judo player, I really like judo side, but while it can a very controlling position, it needs to be a fluid position, easily transitioning between judo side, twister side, and basic side...
if the guy is not doing that, and staying static, I have a multitude of options, entangling the leg with a grapevine, or reverse grapevine, hooking the arm with my foot and sweeping, shrimping in and slipping up to my knees and taking the back... if someone tries to pull my head off with Kesa gatame, I immediately look for one of those options.
don't know if any of those make sense without accompanying video.
like this stuff Zog shows?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgm-...R1lS_hcgeDTsNe
amazing thanks guys... I'm sure some sort of B-Smith type sweep will be there too, problem the guys is a beast haha
I love this kind of top game... I have just started working on the step over... Ralf plays this kind of top with serious pressure as well.
Here is another great sequence from Josh Robinson... I dig the catch and 10p mix :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efox3xBLk50
As for defending against this kind of game... keep the arms tight... watch out for D'arces... try to get your hips away and then latch onto something with your legs... be unstable and strategically frame and bridge when you can
Happy training fellas
I had a feeling the answer would come from the legs, After watching these vids I'm defo gonna start playing with this!!
thanks again lads
I've been thinking about a trip over the UK some time man, when do you guys have classes?
Do it Bro - we train most days if its 10p Classes Wed is the advanced class but we have MTS class Tues, Warm ups Thurs, Sat fundamentals, We are the BANG Muay Thai affiliate too so bring you gear if you fancy a little sparring.
www.10thplanetbirmingham.co.uk
If you walk away from them with your legs most escapes get easier :) The only one that gets harder (that I use) when you walk away from them is if you are trying to sneak a hook in on them with your far leg, but I usually try that one if they follow me and take away the angle I am trying to create.
Karo Parisyan showed me his favorite escape from Judo Side Control. It's the standard bridge and roll but with a twist. Most people leave their trapped arm high, so it goes underneath the armpit. Karo brings that arm down low to the obliques and then gable grips and squeezes hard. That makes the person on top brace for a second, and that allows you to bridge and roll easier.
It's a good trick.
I've had the same problem with some catch wrestling guys before. I would use my flexibility to throw my far leg over the head to create some space so I can shrimp back and regain guard or just back up like in the warm ups. Either way I feel your pain those pro MMA guys have debilitating strength.
Thanks ScottQuote:
Originally Posted by scottross
that makes good sense - I had no problem getting my arms back but it seemed where ever I turned he had a set up - after watching the Zerhog vid a 100 times I think I know where the subs are I think I can use this technique in the transition - I figured it will be an invisible jiu jitsu type thing as like Danny said the pro mma guys have ridiculous core strength.... lets hear it for no GNP haha
Yes! That twister he mentions is actually my go to right now. In judo, I use it to take the back, or sweep, but at the 10P gym, I work the sub into the escapeQuote:
Originally Posted by NameLikeNoOther
Sloppy Judo Side Control with a high knee/open leg leaves the Judo Twister wide open, it is one of the first things I try for. I also try the Marcelo Sit-up Escape.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Schrimsher
Not even sloppy. I turn my hips over, like I'm trying to muscle my way up to a dogfight, and then settle back in, feeding my bottom leg under their top leg, then reverse grapevine.
The Karo Parisyan tip worked a treat there was still a scramble afterwards but I wasn't in danger - I will give the judo Twister a try as the top leg was very open to the hook - Thanks Fellas
Head position theory and spine alignment theory. By hook or crook you can't let him get cross body on you when he is on top.
What's the basic gist of the head/spine alignment theory? (I'm genuinely curious)
I think he's saying don't let the person pinning you maintain a 90 deg angle, but walk your feet up or down until your head and spine are aligned with their head and spine, making the roll over easier.
to be honest the head spine alignment thing is helping using Scott Ross's advice - I am finding his poor base is making it easier to create the space needed - more often than not ending with baby wipe (double unders) which I have started using to get to the truck (not on the pro guy though haha)
I don't think anyone mentioned this, but there's a good movement you can use when you're underneath. Frame, but keep your arms in and you bridge and kinda shake/shimmy their hips down to yours. Once your hips are under theirs you again bridge and roll them towards their under hook side. They should flip over or you should at least be able to sit up enough to shrimp away. Also, just work on using structures period. It will really help your movement in bad positions. If you don't know what I'm talking about talk to Sean Applegate or Brandon McCaghren.
Brandon's seminar on frames and structure at the East Coast Camp changed my bottom game big time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tori Applegate
Me too. He had already shown me some ideas about a month before and Sean had been teaching us the idea of structures. Man, it is so much harder to pass my guard, also I love that I have an elbow/forearm just irritating you the whole time you try pass my guard. It really helped me at my last tournament and I feel really confident about this pro tournament coming up in February with a lot of higher ranked women because of the structure idea and if course the leglock game. Sean taught the basics of that at the camp as well.
I think I'm talking about the Florida training camp. Are you talking about the same one?
Nope. East Coast Camp at Rochester, but I heard it was the same theories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tori Applegate
I agree. Nothing will work if your body is twisted up like a piece or rotisserie chicken.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Schrimsher
thanks all - I rolled with the same guy Monday night and escaped every single time - ending up on the back due to the nature of the scramble.
Mick Broster showed us some great framing techniques from full mount, its has totally opened my eyes to how important it is - I was a sucker for pushing on the knee and giving up my arm in process. If you haven't done so read Scott Ross's response on this thread its working every time.