Has anyone ever studied Tai Chi?

I'm talking old lady in the park kind of Tai Chi.

I know Josh Waitzken (Marcelo Garcia Black Belt) is a big advocate. I've been playing around with the concepts and doing a lot of reading from some of their teachers lately, but have never taken a formal class.

Anybody care to share their experiences?

I recommend reading up on anything by Tim Cartmell. He is a BJJ Black Belt under Cleber Luciano and Master of Chinese internal martial arts. He has also mastered the Chinese language and has translated several Chinese martial arts books. He is on facebook and will answer questions if you have them. He is one of the most knowledgeable and technical instructors I have ever met.

It's good for old ladys in the park. Depending on what you're trying to achieve, you're better off with yoga in the park.

I dont know anything about tai chi, but Yoga I know for sure helps.

I did tai chi for ten years, slow forms, fast forms, push hands - it was a completely different experience from Jiu Jitsu for me - as a movement and mindfulness exercise, tai chi is great, with really nice stretches, balance work, breath work, and an intention of flow. I can see it being translatable in that sense.

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Originally Posted by Oldmanymir

I did tai chi for ten years, slow forms, fast forms, push hands - it was a completely different experience from Jiu Jitsu for me - as a movement and mindfulness exercise, tai chi is great, with really nice stretches, balance work, breath work, and an intention of flow. I can see it being translatable in that sense.

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I think there's some real value there, at least philosophically. I'm intrigued by it right now.

What would you say we're some of your big takeaways from 10years of study?

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Originally Posted by Aiden

I recommend reading up on anything by Tim Cartmell. He is a BJJ Black Belt under Cleber Luciano and Master of Chinese internal martial arts. He has also mastered the Chinese language and has translated several Chinese martial arts books. He is on facebook and will answer questions if you have them. He is one of the most knowledgeable and technical instructors I have ever met.

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Excellent response. That's exactly the kind of dude I'd like to sit down and ask questions of. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

Excellent response. That's exactly the kind of dude I'd like to sit down and ask questions of. Thank you!

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Yep - Tim is probably the most widely experienced person you could get advice from on BJJ and Tai Chi.

I started tai chi before BJJ and continue to practice the slow form in the morning because it just makes me feel good. It's hard to say what crosses over exactly with BJJ, but it's really a collection of fringe benefits:

1: It's excellent physical therapy from the constant ache I get the day after training (especially shoulders).

2: I rarely get injured either, and I think that's related.

3: I find it easier to relax and apply new moves in class thanks to tai chi. Moving slow you come to be more aware of how your body moves, and your Proprioception improves dramatically.

4: It's very good conditioning for the legs, since you are constantly moving in a low stance with knees bent. (Doing the form is really like doing an extended squat over 15 minutes) People have always remarked on how strong my legs are in BJJ when to me it doesn't feel like I'm using much effort. You'll build legs like Marcelo's!

5: Co-ordinating breathing and movement. In general in Tai Chi you exhale on outwards movements and inhale on inwards ones, so you train your body to do this automatically - so when you exert effort on a clinch you find yourself breathing in and when you exert effort on a bridging hip escape you breathe out naturally.

Let's the honest, the martial applications of tai chi forms are a little whacky so don't get hung up on them. It's like a whacky style of Kung fu if you look at it that way. Think of it more as a type of conditioning.

I do the yang style. Now if you really want to do down the 'internal' rabbit hole I'd suggest finding a good Chen style teacher, since that aspect seems to have preserved better in that style. If you really want to dive deep into the 'internal' bit, without the tai chi form and all that entails, then seek out the 6H Facebook group for good quality info and exercises about 'internal' movement without any of the Qi magic stuff. 6H means six harmony.

Good luck - happy to answer questions. It's always amazed me why so few people have picked up on how good tai chi can be for BJJ.

Years ago before I moved to Melbourne we had a long time Tai Chi black belt come and do a few classes with him, we did some takedown/wrestling sparring with him and it was almost impossible to get him seriously off balance, his base was incredible. We had a couple of guys with good wrestling and judo backgrounds there, too and they didn't have much success.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

I think there's some real value there, at least philosophically. I'm intrigued by it right now.

What would you say we're some of your big takeaways from 10years of study?

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My biggest takeaway was a sense of the ground in a noncerebral sense, meaning trying to create structure and support in my body without thinking and tensing too much. That and the idea of movement as it relates to proper transfer of weight, meaning I'd shift my weight off of the foot that needed to move in a fashion that would still provide support and structure for the rest of my body.

I think it also really challenged me to truly relax while still being strong in my structure, something I'd say I never truly mastered but sometimes got a sense of. The yo yo effect of trying without trying too much was a huge stretch for my western mind. I liked tai chi a lot.

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Originally Posted by brianspinaltap

Yep - Tim is probably the most widely experienced person you could get advice from on BJJ and Tai Chi.

I started tai chi before BJJ and continue to practice the slow form in the morning because it just makes me feel good. It's hard to say what crosses over exactly with BJJ, but it's really a collection of fringe benefits:

1: It's excellent physical therapy from the constant ache I get the day after training (especially shoulders).

2: I rarely get injured either, and I think that's related.

3: I find it easier to relax and apply new moves in class thanks to tai chi. Moving slow you come to be more aware of how your body moves, and your Proprioception improves dramatically.

4: It's very good conditioning for the legs, since you are constantly moving in a low stance with knees bent. (Doing the form is really like doing an extended squat over 15 minutes) People have always remarked on how strong my legs are in BJJ when to me it doesn't feel like I'm using much effort. You'll build legs like Marcelo's!

5: Co-ordinating breathing and movement. In general in Tai Chi you exhale on outwards movements and inhale on inwards ones, so you train your body to do this automatically - so when you exert effort on a clinch you find yourself breathing in and when you exert effort on a bridging hip escape you breathe out naturally.

Let's the honest, the martial applications of tai chi forms are a little whacky so don't get hung up on them. It's like a whacky style of Kung fu if you look at it that way. Think of it more as a type of conditioning.

I do the yang style. Now if you really want to do down the 'internal' rabbit hole I'd suggest finding a good Chen style teacher, since that aspect seems to have preserved better in that style. If you really want to dive deep into the 'internal' bit, without the tai chi form and all that entails, then seek out the 6H Facebook group for good quality info and exercises about 'internal' movement without any of the Qi magic stuff. 6H means six harmony.

Good luck - happy to answer questions. It's always amazed me why so few people have picked up on how good tai chi can be for BJJ.

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Awesome response. Thank you very much!

I have definitely found myself most interested in the Chen philosophies. The internal stuff is definitely what interests me the most.

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Originally Posted by Oldmanymir

My biggest takeaway was a sense of the ground in a noncerebral sense, meaning trying to create structure and support in my body without thinking and tensing too much. That and the idea of movement as it relates to proper transfer of weight, meaning I'd shift my weight off of the foot that needed to move in a fashion that would still provide support and structure for the rest of my body.

I think it also really challenged me to truly relax while still being strong in my structure, something I'd say I never truly mastered but sometimes got a sense of. The yo yo effect of trying without trying too much was a huge stretch for my western mind. I liked tai chi a lot.

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This is exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to look into.

Tai Chi is a minefield in terms of finding a good instructor, especially in the nether regions of Canada where I currently live. My instructor was Tek Siaw, he lives in Vancouver now I believe, and mainly teaches Yang style. Find yourself some good Tai Chi and a good instructor and you'll be rocking the "carry the tiger back to the mountain" in no time!

I'd like to see a Tai Chi master and a Yoga master get into a fight...

Tai Chi? YOU MEAN THE MOST BRUTAL MARTIAL ART EVER?

I never tried Tai Chi, but did mess around with some Ku Chi, particularly the wang style. Lots of hip movement, really good for clearing your mind. Also did a sister form called Pu Na Nee, which I believe originated in Djibouti.

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Originally Posted by Bryan Brown

I never tried Tai Chi, but did mess around with some Ku Chi, particularly the wang style. Lots of hip movement, really good for clearing your mind. Also did a sister form called Pu Na Nee, which I believe originated in Djibouti.

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Bro I think this just flew over everyone's head.

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Originally Posted by NelsonLucca

Bro I think this just flew over everyone's head.

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;-) In time, they will awaken...

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Originally Posted by bryan brown

i never tried tai chi, but did mess around with some ku chi, particularly the wang style. Lots of hip movement, really good for clearing your mind. Also did a sister form called pu na nee, which i believe originated in djibouti.

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strong work

Havnt done tai chi specifically but have looked into it a little. Its kind of a martial arts qigong. This video is pretty good about explaining qigong basics. They are basics though, so information from a higher level system or higher level of understanding might contradict some things they say in the video. Kinda like jiu jitsu in a way, if that makes sense.

Disregard the funny movements. Some qigong systems exercises look funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPl8JNxSYIY

Always thought the push hands stuff would be a fun training thing to do and maybe have some grappling application going on. Quick end of class push hands competition.

Sometimes I order me a Tai Chi Latte at Starbucks. Pretty tasty but I think it's got a lot of sugar.

Wait...

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. There's obviously no guarantee, but some people find tai chi to be beneficial to their health, especially when done outdoors. There are different forms, some softer and more relaxing, while others are more explosive, showing the martial arts roots of tai chi. The softer forms are almost like a mix between a slow dance and meditation. As far as yoga is concerned, I wouldn't necessarily say that one is better or worse than the other, their purpose is just different and both can be beneficial in their own ways, varying of course for each individual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh3RM1mvzeE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brianspinaltap

Yep - Tim is probably the most widely experienced person you could get advice from on BJJ and Tai Chi.

I started tai chi before BJJ and continue to practice the slow form in the morning because it just makes me feel good. It's hard to say what crosses over exactly with BJJ, but it's really a collection of fringe benefits:

1: It's excellent physical therapy from the constant ache I get the day after training (especially shoulders).

2: I rarely get injured either, and I think that's related.

3: I find it easier to relax and apply new moves in class thanks to tai chi. Moving slow you come to be more aware of how your body moves, and your Proprioception improves dramatically.

4: It's very good conditioning for the legs, since you are constantly moving in a low stance with knees bent. (Doing the form is really like doing an extended squat over 15 minutes) People have always remarked on how strong my legs are in BJJ when to me it doesn't feel like I'm using much effort. You'll build legs like Marcelo's!

5: Co-ordinating breathing and movement. In general in Tai Chi you exhale on outwards movements and inhale on inwards ones, so you train your body to do this automatically - so when you exert effort on a clinch you find yourself breathing in and when you exert effort on a bridging hip escape you breathe out naturally.

Let's the honest, the martial applications of tai chi forms are a little whacky so don't get hung up on them. It's like a whacky style of Kung fu if you look at it that way. Think of it more as a type of conditioning.

I do the yang style. Now if you really want to do down the 'internal' rabbit hole I'd suggest finding a good Chen style teacher, since that aspect seems to have preserved better in that style. If you really want to dive deep into the 'internal' bit, without the tai chi form and all that entails, then seek out the 6H Facebook group for good quality info and exercises about 'internal' movement without any of the Qi magic stuff. 6H means six harmony.

Good luck - happy to answer questions. It's always amazed me why so few people have picked up on how good tai chi can be for BJJ.

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Excellent response - the 'centering' work that taiji provides is awesome, the sensitivity gained from having someone very knowledgeable teach you push hands...its a great tool to have in MMA. Secret Weapon toolbox stuff that appears unrelated that you dont tell people about but compliments the rest of your training very well.

Yang is softer, Chen more vigorous...anyone that doesnt think taiji can be a decently vicious martial art never saw it from someone who was martially trained with it. Yang was invented for the people of whom Chen was too demanding (the Emperor & family, political appointees or what not, more or less.)

The internal stuff is its own training, but taiji is considered one of the internal martial arts because the forms work concurrently with the internal training. But some measure of internal training I personally would recommend, because that literally becomes the other spare fuel tank - if you liken your training to a pool of water - your physical training is how wide the pool is; your internal training is how deep the pool is. If you train very very hard physically, you might just discover that you can achieve the same results by working less hard by adding the meditative side to it - in a nutshell, plateaus are where it gets harder to make the pool wider, ya might not realize how easy it is to get more 'water' by 'making the pool deeper' instead of attacking the plateau.

One of the best push hands displays I saw was at a friend/teacher's get together, nice BBQ, he and one of his teachers went at it....amazing watching 2 dudes do this that really know how NOT to give up their root - and that's one of the biggest applications right there is that ability to maintain rootedness.

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Originally Posted by Coonehh

Excellent response - the 'centering' work that taiji provides is awesome, the sensitivity gained from having someone very knowledgeable teach you push hands...its a great tool to have in MMA. Secret Weapon toolbox stuff that appears unrelated that you dont tell people about but compliments the rest of your training very well.

Yang is softer, Chen more vigorous...anyone that doesnt think taiji can be a decently vicious martial art never saw it from someone who was martially trained with it. Yang was invented for the people of whom Chen was too demanding (the Emperor & family, political appointees or what not, more or less.)

The internal stuff is its own training, but taiji is considered one of the internal martial arts because the forms work concurrently with the internal training. But some measure of internal training I personally would recommend, because that literally becomes the other spare fuel tank - if you liken your training to a pool of water - your physical training is how wide the pool is; your internal training is how deep the pool is. If you train very very hard physically, you might just discover that you can achieve the same results by working less hard by adding the meditative side to it - in a nutshell, plateaus are where it gets harder to make the pool wider, ya might not realize how easy it is to get more 'water' by 'making the pool deeper' instead of attacking the plateau.

One of the best push hands displays I saw was at a friend/teacher's get together, nice BBQ, he and one of his teachers went at it....amazing watching 2 dudes do this that really know how NOT to give up their root - and that's one of the biggest applications right there is that ability to maintain rootedness.

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Awesome response. I have to say that my Jiu jitsu is growing by leaps and bounds right now in large part to me beginning to study Tai Chi. I'm not even practicing it that much; just reading about it and trying to absorb the philosophy.

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couple good fundamentals images I came across in my travels

http://i.imgur.com/jusQOvP.jpg
^standing becomes a breathing exercise once you've relaxed. that image doesnt specifically say to relax the ankles, but that's an important part of it, I've found. Its also important to get these bits down so that once you sink all the way to a 90 degree horse stance, your form is correct and you dont start hurting knees. 90 horse stance becomes damn near entirely a breathing exercise.

http://i.imgur.com/1IKaaqb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/saYDwEm.jpg


One other thing that is an excellent addition for legwork is bagua circle walking. To get the stepping right, you keep the upper body in the arms down by side zhan zhuang posture and then its easier to focus on the hook step diagonal step 8 pattern. At a normal height is "upper basin" and then down halfway middle basin, deep is lower basin...if your legs get to the point where you can consider yourself lower basin trained....haha, treestumps ;)