IBJJF rules and the Jiu Claw

Hey Guys,

So I have a friend who is looking to compete in an upcoming NAGA event, and we were talking about the rules in terms of points and what not, and we actually got into a pretty interesting conversation regarding points from the Jiu Claw.

So as we all know, if we get to Jiu Claw and they roll out of it to escape, that is a sweep. So does that make the Jiu Claw a type of Guard position? The reason I have to ask this question, is because I often attack for omoplatas from the top, and if they roll out when I go to Jiu Claw from the top do I still get points for a sweep for that?

One of the many grey areas of points competition I guess, what do you guys think?

I think points are kinda silly. If they tap, you win.

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Originally Posted by Craig Murray

I think points are kinda silly. If they tap, you win.

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I personally agree, but this was a question that actually made me have to think about it a little bit. Its the guys first competition and he was asking me to teach him about how the points worked.. We started rolling again, and I went to Jiu Claw from top, and he did the exact situation as I described above, and said "I just gave you another sweep, didn't I? How many points is that worth?" ... To which I had to reply that I wasn't sure... Lol

Yes, you get the points for a sweep.

IBJJF and NAGA are not the same rules system.

If you give up a dominate position to go to Jiu Claw, its likely going to give them escape/sweep points.

A sweep has to initiated from a guard. If you go from RG, to jiu claw, and fail on the omoplata (e.g. end up in side control), then you will get 2 points for the sweep and you SHOULD get 3 for passing the guard to side control (not always the case with some referees).
If you go from mount no points, because it wasn't initiated from a guard. If you go from mount and end up on bottom, no points for you or your opponent as it's classed as a reversal of position.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

IBJJF and NAGA are not the same rules system.

If you give up a dominate position to go to Jiu Claw, its likely going to give them escape/sweep points.

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Thanks man,

I was under the impression Naga followed IBJJF rules...

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Originally Posted by Nick Birring

A sweep has to initiated from a guard. If you go from RG, to jiu claw, and fail on the omoplata (e.g. end up in side control), then you will get 2 points for the sweep and you SHOULD get 3 for passing the guard to side control (not always the case with some referees).
If you go from mount no points, because it wasn't initiated from a guard. If you go from mount and end up on bottom, no points for you or your opponent as it's classed as a reversal of position.

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Thanks for the info man... I was thinking of something along those lines as well.. Although in competition I have never received passing points for sweeping from the Jiu Claw to side control... I also thought maybe as Chris said above because you are technically giving up a dominant position it would still count as a sweep..

NAGA is not IBJJF rules. However, you can't really get sweep points if you attack from the top. If you mean "does the guy get points for sweeping", the answer is no. You are attacking from mount, he does not have any kind of guard, he does not get points according to IBJJF. I am not 100% it that is still the case with NAGA.

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Originally Posted by Diogo Trigo

NAGA is not IBJJF rules. However, you can't really get sweep points if you attack from the top. If you mean "does the guy get points for sweeping", the answer is no. You are attacking from mount, he does not have any kind of guard, he does not get points according to IBJJF. I am not 100% it that is still the case with NAGA.

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Thanks man,

I was asking more on the basis of whether or not Jiu Claw was considered a guard or not.. So basically, like if you go from side mount (top) to Jiu Claw, if you were technically going to a guard position, and whether or not sweeps would count from there.. As if you attack that position from the bottom it still counts as a guard..

The thing is that it's the guy on bottom who has to have the guard in order to sweep. For instance, closed guard sweeps straight to mount. Sweep points. Mount sweeps back into closed guard. No points. Because on the second instance the "sweeper" does not have a guard.
Being so, even if jiu claw counted as a guard (I don't really know if it does) it doesn't really matter if you go from top side to jiu claw and get swept, because if it were a guard it would be your guard, not the guy on the bottom. He never recovered guard and hence will not get the sweep points.

That being said, I'd reiterate that this is IBJJF, I am really not sure what the rules are for NAGA, but I suspect they're similar, if anything you'll get the points for going for a submission.

Naga rules are not the same as IBJJF. They most definitely won't count Jiu Claw as a submission.

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Originally Posted by Keith D

Thanks for the info man... I was thinking of something along those lines as well.. Although in competition I have never received passing points for sweeping from the Jiu Claw to side control... I also thought maybe as Chris said above because you are technically giving up a dominant position it would still count as a sweep..

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Yeah it's weird, because if you sweep straight to mount, you get accumulated points. Some refs will, some refs won't. Typical refereeing standards haha.

Your not getting sweep points in either organization if you go straight to Jiu-Claw. You SHOULDN'T give up points doing it either, as long as they don't escape it and get on top. If you initiated it from a dominate position (not their guard) they can't get sweep points even if they do come on top when escaping unless they pass too. If you did it on top from their guard this is deep gray area but I would expect the reff to give them points if they come up though I have seen refs score this sort of thing different ways.

In NAGA, you can get sub attempt points for this. If you ask a NAGA reff they will ussually tell you its one point for what we call jiu-claw when you explain it to them and two for after you sit up. However, it is my experience, having competed in a LOT of NAGA's that you get no points until you sit up, even if the reff you asked about it early and who told you different is the one reffing your match.

Oh, also note that IN THE GI NAGA does use an almost IBJJF point structure. What I'm calling "NAGA rules" is a completely different point system which they use for no gi only.

There is no point system in the world that you don't see arbitrary enforcement on by the way..