Interesting short documentary/story. Not a surprise we don't hear much about this......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCai00QBEl4
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Interesting short documentary/story. Not a surprise we don't hear much about this......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCai00QBEl4
Noone interested in this at all ? Weird.
What does it say in a nutshell?
It tells the story of Rufino Dos Santos, a catch wrestler who challeged Carlos Gracie, who then tried to escape the challenge by trying to make Rufino wear suit and tie during the match and ridicilous stuff like that. Rufino then proceeded to defeat Carlos after which the Gracie brothers jumped him outside of his workplace 3 on 1 and beat him with weapons and broke his arm, resulting in career ending injuries. Gracies ended up getting convicted to 2 years in prison.
Allegedly, Carlos escaped the ring to avoid a bad situation and jumped the restart with a guillotine. He then claimed that Dos Santos tapped, which was denied by Dos Santos and the ref made another restart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Impulsive
Regards the prison, the Gracies were well connected politically and it appears that they did not serve any actual time. They had already previously attacked and injured Carlos's former teacher Donato Pires.
From Wikipedia:
Like many people, there are Gracie's that have done some stupid stuff. Brazil at that time was under a dictatorship so "mafia" or "gangster" mentality was very common. In parts of America this was also true during Prohibition years and even in modern times, many people can't walk away from an insult, even though it is just words and not facts.Quote:
The match, which was the only professional bout in Carlos's life,[3] finally took place on the promised day. During the first two five-minute rounds, Rufino dominated the bout,[3] forcing Carlos to defend from his guard and at one point even hit illegal strikes that were admonished by the referee.[4]
At the third, Rufino passed his guard and locked a submission hold, which Gracie avoided by diving out of the ring through the ropes. The referee ordered the match to be restarted on the center of the ring, but Gracie locked a guillotine choke in the process, causing turmoil.[4] Carlos claimed Rufino had tapped out while his opponent denied it, so the judges deliberated for some time and decided to solve the argument by restarting the match. However, Gracie refused to fight, insisting he had already won, and thus Rufino was declared winner.[3]
The conflict then moved to the newspapers, where Rufino critized Carlos's skill and dismissed his jiu-jitsu credentials, leading Carlos, George and Hélio to assault him in front of his teaching place at the Tijuca Tênis Clube on October 18. They hit him repeatedly with a steel bar and immobilized him for Carlos to apply an armlock, dislocating his shoulder so badly that it needed surgery.[4][1]
This time the brothers were arrested and were convicted to two years and a half in prison for assault, as well as for trying to run away during the arrest, but their connections to President of Brazil Getúlio Vargas granted them a pardon.[3]
I just saw this 2 weeks ago (or so), honestly really dark stuff about Carlos/Helio/George/Gustao (I believe). She some new light on the gracies, although I can honestly say I am not surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by vdesire
It is basically a short documentary telling the store of Rufino Dos Santos - A catch wrestler who was actually the coach of Euclydes Hatem (founder of Luta Livre) - Essentially/Allegedly - The Gracies were doing a challenge match against a Capoera fighter, when they stopped the match to change the rules reguarding the legality of some of their kicks.. After the rules were changed (of course the Gracies won) - Rufino Dos Santos (who was in the crowd) gave his 'I am not impressed by your performance speech' and challenged any Gracie to an immediate match. They all declined that night until Carlos accepted. When they had the rules meeting - Rufino pulled out the BJJ rule book and said he had no problem adhering to those rules. To which Carlos then refused to fight those rules saying 'that he does a self defense version'. After Rufino agreed to the rules Carlos drafted himself - Carlos got around to the dress code - He demanded he be able to wear a gi, and Rufino had to wear a suit 'as he would in the street', everyone knew that was ridiculous - but they fought anyway. During the fight Carlos would engage in unsportsmanlike actions including fleeing the right, and would eventually quit... A few weeks after that match Rufino put out a letter he wrote called 13 question to Carlos Gracie, which included questions like, why did you change the rules and ask a doctor to over turn the result of our fight... and why did you refuse challenges from my students.... The Gracies (3) - Carlos, Helio, and George waited for him at his place of work, and Jumped him ending his Career with a brutal armlock - While Helio beat him with a Pipe... Even back then the Gracies were changing the rules to suit them (Kind of like at Metamoris 3)... A little bit more of a nutshell, but its as short as I could summarize a 12 - 15 minute video.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo
Look into it. #flatearthQuote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo
haha
It's been well summarised by the other posters. I am certainly no fan of the Gracies and here is another reason why. All this putting themself forward as being honourable and respect etc when nothing could be further from the truth.
The Other Side Of The Tale https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRZfOzRe5fU
#damagecontrol
I'm not buying it. What was described pretty much fits perfectly with the exact behaviour many of the Gracies have exhibited over the years such as demanding bizarre rules for their opponents, always some nonsense story and generally not being able to accept defeat.
They admit three Gracies turned up to the guys work to confront him and you expect us to believe Helio just had a fight with him whilst the other two stood and watched ? Aye ok then.
You can see the smirks on their faces near the end of the video and I guess the jump cut was so they could get a serious face back on.
Remember when Royler/Eddie match 2 was stopped and restarted and Royler tried to start on top, only when they put it on the screen did he go back on bottom. I wonder how that event would have been described by Gracies were it not on video ?
Remember the articles afterwards in jiu jitsu magazines trying to make it sound like Royler got the better of him ? Remember the Gracie breakdowns which of course had Royler on top as the thumbnail ?
Remember Royce smirking about kneeing Ken Shamrock in the groin in their third match ?
Remember when Ralek Gracie conveniently had to have his shorts pulled up when Sakuraba locked in a double wrist lock on him ?
Remember when Ralek Gracie didn't pay anyone for metamoris ?
I could go on but I'm not buying their damage control Gracies were perfectly honourable and bla la la version of events. Seems eerily similar to the stuff we have seen past few decades so why do you expect me to believe it was any different way back when.
Remember the rules of Metamoris 3??? Eddie suggested that he wanted to wear Gi Pants - Royler was gonna wear shorts - but Royler could grab the pants, but Eddie couldn't grab the shorts..... Not to mention unless I am mistaken, the rules for that particular events were - If a submission is locked at the end of regulation - the match continues? Eddie had Royler in a Vaporizor at the end of Regulation time - so why did the match end?? Especially when it was Royler using his grips to save his ass...Quote:
Originally Posted by vdesire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep0zL4RuLhs
carlsons or carlos line is more known for bjj competition
Proofs are not enough to believe it. Because media is not the proof. According to media RSD Julien is a harasser lol
The History Channel Maintains That Rufino Dos Santos Was A Known Bullshitter...He Also Said He Played Ted Danson In Cheers
I can firmly dispute and disspell the idea that the Gracie’s don’t want people to know this story. Case in point; the other day I did a night class at Gracie Academy Beverly Hills, on the history timeline they have these exact details on the wall at the entrance, they tell this exact story and state how the Gracie brother’s relationship with the Brazilian president got them a pardon. At least from Helio’s side of the family, this unequivocally shuts down the idea that they ‘don’t want you to know this’. Not exactly something they’re hiding.Quote:
Originally Posted by vdesire
Be careful grouping every Gracie family member as one. I train with Rener and Ryron, they have only good and respectful things to say about my cross-training with Edgy. Additionally, they work very hard to cultivate and repair relationships that some of their family members have gone a long way to sour. I’ll tell you from the inside that they run a first class operation and work very, very hard to do right by their students. They’re on record ceasing a business relationship with Ralek. It’s all out there. Long story short, be wary of grouping every one of them together.
Who knows what or who to believe. All I know is 10P would not exist if it wasn’t for the Gracie’s
Rocket science may not be where it's at today without Wernher von Braun, he did much work in Nazi Germany before being moved to America after the war.
I think in this forum you get a balanced view on most stuff just like here as some people like the Gracies, some are indifferent/neutral and others dislike them.
There's no way I could be so patient and respectful to them the way Eddie is after the amount of hassle and garbage they talk about him though I'll say that much.
Hadn't seen / heard this story. A good alternate perspective - thanks for sharing :)
gracies are really full of themselves.. I train in a carlos or carlson? gracie school so in my school the instructors are a little bit more humble. It is carlos or carlsons line not helio and they are less cocky from what i heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by vdesire
Helio said rickson padded his record for example.
Anyways some gracies are cool others are dismissive of other styles of grappling like 10th planet.
Right now we have been working on the rubber guard in my gym (and a few other 10th planet techniques), very cool shit.
I dont even know why im rambling like this just to prove a point i guess. Some gracies lie.