Advanced Triangle Practicioners

I had noticed this in first in the Mastering the RG book, and then in the first video on the Demian Maia highlight thread.

Triangles being finished without being completely perpendicular to your opponent. Maia was tapping another black belt with his leg locked over the shoulder, not over the neck.

Furthermore, the triangle victim's arm was not even pulled across their body yet the choke was still finished.

Why is this possible? And what are the implications?

Can you submit people at the highest level without pushing their arm across their body or locking your leg over their neck simply by having a good squeeze and pulling down on the head?

Its all about the squeeze. Takes time to develop it, like flexibility if you dont have it naturally.

I'm getting pretty flexible haha, I can do full lotus now.

But with that good squeeze... can you completely bypass moving their arm across their body etc?

All about the squeeze.

Also take into account that some guys panic in chokes and just tap anyway even if they shouldn't I wouldn't expect someone at a high level to do that but sometimes guys fear it.......You see it a lot in MMA guys get a choke in and they just freeze up and stop trying to fight it off then tap before going out, I still don't' really understand why guys tap to chokes in competition makes sense in practice but not in comp I'll escape or I'll pass out.

But a triangle is primarily targeting the arteries on the sides of the neck so if you are good at squeezing your thighs in you could finish it without hitting it technically perfect.

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Originally Posted by OmyPlata

I'm getting pretty flexible haha, I can do full lotus now.

But with that good squeeze... can you completely bypass moving their arm across their body etc?

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If I get a triangle locked in, I don't need the arm across. That should be your goal with your squeeze. There's a guy in my gym who's been doing it for 6 months and has the most killer triangle I've ever been in, just because of his insane squeeze strength

First everyone is right about the squeeze. Second is the correct angle. Perfect example was Demian showing me to turn clockwise (walk your hands towards their legs) from the mounted triangle. My squeeze is very good though, curls are insane, but that is from working on it...

May I say that if the leg is crossed over the shoulder it is not the choke but the pain that brings the submission? I mean if the leg is not perpendicular, there is probably room to breathe and a bit blood to go to the brain i think.

Pain sometimes brings the submission but not often. If you have a triangle thats on with the correct angle it will work, but getting that angle is hard sometimes. Squeeze will help big time :)

The squeeze helps me lock in the perfect postion. I like hooking the leg if its there or just do the Omaha Twist I think is what they call it should help get the nasty angle.

Not just squeeze man, pinch the knees. It should be the first thing you do.

the squeeze and the carotid arteries ;)

Ryan Halls dvds helped me immensely in finishing my triangles.

There is a Ryan Hall video you can find online that goes through how he finishes and tightens triangles. It shows how you can avoid crossing the arm, and how to get way more power by turning perpendicular. It also explains clearly which muscles you use from different angles (yes, they are different), which should help explain. Essentially, you are more likely to gas yourself or fail, but you can get the choke, no arm across, with your hip flexors (I think that's the muscle that you use to pinch your knees, right?. still, you dont have to be perfectly parallel to switch to stronger muscles. I find a little turn is all I need, especially if I wrap them up by getting under the other side leg or arm. Ryan's ignores pulling the head, but you can combine that in as well pretty obviously for a little extra torque.

Decided not to be lazy....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsNtpxKVn5M
Can someone link this directly?

Also, beautiful explanation of the pop triangle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yoaQjv2T4

I really want to get this DVD series, he has such a clear, simple way of breaking down complex concepts.

the arm doesnt have to be dragged across the body

you just need that perfect angle
and pulling on the head doesnt actually choke your opponents faster
its just super uncomfortable

Like Ryan Hall said you need to use your manly man muscles. It's all about angles and squeeze!

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Ryan Halls dvds helped me immensely in finishing my triangles.

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I dont even go for the arm any more at all. Just watch the dvd and practice getting to a perpendicular angle and your triangles will go to a crazy percentage.

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Originally Posted by JeffDoherty

Not just squeeze man, pinch the knees. It should be the first thing you do.

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If you stay square with your opponent, yes... If you're going to a perpendicular angle, then use your man muscles.

iv been trying something new recently that seems to work pretty well... i push the elbow of the arm that isnt inside the triangle with both of my palms, in translation putting that opposite arm across my hips. it allows me to cut the angle easily while getting rid of my opponents ability to use most of their defensive tactics by taking their free arm out of the picture.

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Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

iv been trying something new recently that seems to work pretty well... i push the elbow of the arm that isnt inside the triangle with both of my palms, in translation putting that opposite arm across my hips. it allows me to cut the angle easily while getting rid of my opponents ability to use most of their defensive tactics by taking their free arm out of the picture.

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Hall shows something similar in his dvd. He underhooks the outside arm and grabs the inside of his knee to turn the angle, he uses that if the opponents leg is not easily accessible to get perpendicular.

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Originally Posted by Mike Dewitt Jr

Hall shows something similar in his dvd. He underhooks the outside arm and grabs the inside of his knee to turn the angle, he uses that if the opponents leg is not easily accessible to get perpendicular.

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yeah i watched his dvd and began using that method, but i ran into a roadblock against more advanced players that would just push their elbow into my face or wouldnt let me get the underhook by keeping their arm tight. it seems like that problem doesnt really exist if i just push their elbow away.