No gi vs Gi?!?

leave your opinions on gi vs no gi or why you should train both

Here is the perfect analogy imo

Trying to learn no-gi first, is like trying to learn chess by only playing speed chess on a really really short clock.

You have such little time to think, because its so fast and furious, that it takes forever to pick anything up.

A beginner chess player needs to sit there and really take their time and THINK about every move for 5,10,20 minutes + if they want to REALLY get good.

A guy stuck playing speed chess his entire life will never develop into a good chess player without playing the LOOONG SLOOOW games where you develop strategy, and not just short term tactics. The time to think is the time to learn.

The GI is a training tool that slows things down enough that YOU CAN LEARN *more* effectively.

another analogy:
Find someone who has never played guitar hero (and games like it).
Make them start playing the game on the highest expert level ONLY.
See how fast they progress compared to someone who is allowed to play it SLOW first

Im not saying you cant get good doing only no-gi, but its the SLOWER learning path

" Its CRUCIAL to train with the GI to have the finest technique." - Marcelo Garcia

what is evreyones opinion on Gi vs No gi?

Gi and Nogi. The vs is kind of unnecessary.

the whole point of the thread is to see peoples opinions on if you should just train gi,no gi,or both...

and why ^

Both. Gi makes your nogi better. Nogi makes your gi better. More matches. More mat time. More medals. Need I say more? Each has pros and cons. All in all, it's just jiu jitsu.

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Originally Posted by Emir Mehovic

leave your opinions on gi vs no gi or why you should train both

Here is the perfect analogy imo

Trying to learn no-gi first, is like trying to learn chess by only playing speed chess on a really really short clock.

You have such little time to think, because its so fast and furious, that it takes forever to pick anything up.

A beginner chess player needs to sit there and really take their time and THINK about every move for 5,10,20 minutes + if they want to REALLY get good.

A guy stuck playing speed chess his entire life will never develop into a good chess player without playing the LOOONG SLOOOW games where you develop strategy, and not just short term tactics. The time to think is the time to learn.

The GI is a training tool that slows things down enough that YOU CAN LEARN *more* effectively.

another analogy:
Find someone who has never played guitar hero (and games like it).
Make them start playing the game on the highest expert level ONLY.
See how fast they progress compared to someone who is allowed to play it SLOW first

Im not saying you cant get good doing only no-gi, but its the SLOWER learning path

" Its CRUCIAL to train with the GI to have the finest technique." - Marcelo Garcia

what is evreyones opinion on Gi vs No gi?

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Well your comparison to chess is okay but in chess you always review your games after your done if you want to improve. Doesn't matter if its blitz, bullet , or standard time controls. Taken that into consideration consider this. You may play a game of chess to where each player has 60 minutes to move. So not only do you have more time to think about strategy so does your opponent. Although the analogy to chess is a bit exaggerated when comparing to Jiu Jitsu. There isn't THAT much difference in Gi and no Gi. But I agree with Scott no vs. Just do both if thats what makes you feel like what you need :)

Here are some of Eddies thoughts:

http://www.no-gi-grappling.com/no-gi-vs-gi.html

Here are some of mine:

http://www.no-gi-grappling.com/no-gi-vs-gi-2.html

http://www.no-gi-grappling.com/no-gi.html

Seems to me you've already given your own opinion. Mine:they're two different sports. With all due respect to the Marcelo Garcia quote,grappling for MMA is waaay different than tournament 'jits.

I think it just really depends on what you want to do with your jitz. Are you gonna use it for MMA? Then nogi is probably better to prepare you since MMA is without a gi. Purely for sport? Then who cares, do both. For self defense, they are both ok.

self defense ? GI mma ? no Gi, for a complete game, do both, remember the Gi simulates real life, any potential attacker will usually were a shirt, but if one or the other, choose GI, it's easy to adapt to no Gi, but it's '' funny '' to watch a strictly no Gi, player try the GI, it's like there fucking lost. there own fault for thinking there '' Too Cool '' to wear a GI

My profound thoughts on the subject ;)

If you want to get better at No-Gi, train No-Gi.
If you want to get better at the Gi, train with the Gi.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

My profound thoughts on the subject ;)

If you want to get better at No-Gi, train No-Gi.
If you want to get better at the Gi, train with the Gi.

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Wait, wait just a minute..........r u saying that if I wanna get good at shooting free throws (for example) going to the batting cages isn't gonna help?? Crap!! :)

You're argument is silly. You're basing it all on sparring. What do you learn more from? Sparring or Drilling? Drilling obviously. The speed you drill at has shit to do with a gi or no gi. Perfect practice is what improves you. How would know which path is faster if you haven't experienced training only no gi?

Emir I have told you before.......just do it. Its are duty as young guns in this sport to be badass's in everything. There is always something to learn from both. I just go out and throw down no gi stuff, my gi game isn't the stongest. It's still rolling time with some really good guys.

I told you I rolled for gold in gi last Naga. i would have smoked this kid in no gi. What happend ??? I went to sleep for the first time ever with the kid (just for a second.lol.) But I learned what not to let a gi guy do to me. Stupid gi coller ....way to easy to get choked out with.lol. But i can't wait to roll with him again in gi.....I got some new tricks for his ass. Stuff I would have never worked on if I didn't take a nap.lol.

Learn as much as you can, in everything. thats my goal. If you plan on doing mma will all gi stuff work. No, but it can't hurt.

Look at it like this, I heard Joe rogan say once. Gi training alone for a cage fight, probably won't help all that much. But on the street some guy wearing a leather jacket with a nice heavy coller is looking to kick your ass. Your looking at a dead man right there.LOL.

Do it all brother...... Look for you at Naga R.I. on the 30th. I expect you to have a gi with you.lol

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

My profound thoughts on the subject ;)

If you want to get better at No-Gi, train No-Gi.
If you want to get better at the Gi, train with the Gi.

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Man that is deep! That's some Zen shit right there. :)

I have no interest in a GI or rolling with a GI on, why would rolling with a GI make me better at NO GI. Im not buying this whole its slower and easier to learn bull...we drill everything slow.

I like the gi because sometimes I'm in the mood for karate.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

My profound thoughts on the subject ;)

If you want to get better at No-Gi, train No-Gi.
If you want to get better at the Gi, train with the Gi.

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^This^...it's like apples and oranges, both are still fruit, however......well you get the drift :)

Conner the Machine is right, Leather Jacket, Dead Man, that's one Cool fucking kid !!

i'm a computer programmer. my livelihood depends on how good i am at the computer languages i use like java. back in college, we were required to take a lot of math and physics subjects. i was like "what for?". but in the end, learning those subjects taught me values needed to be a good cp like thinking analytically. i guess gi and no-gi is like that. you train in gi to learn values, practices, or techniques that will help you in no-gi. training with the gi is like a launch pad for training without a gi. that being said, no matter how much i study math, that doesn't mean i'm gonna be a master at java. in the end what coach herzog is saying is right. if you want to get good in gi, train in gi. if you want to get good at no-gi, train in no-gi. gi and no-gi are two different animals. you can't tame one if you focus on the other. i've never grappled with the gi and so far it hasn't hindered my learning process. that's just my opinion anyways.

or... by your logic, you could roll slower with no gi and have the best of both worlds? lmao I just want to bash my head against the wall sometimes.

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Originally Posted by JusLove

lmao I just want to bash my head against the wall sometimes.

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I'd love to see that

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Originally Posted by Scott Philips

I'd love to see that

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Ladies first :)

When it comes to mma I don't understand people talking about gi vs nogi. What do you really think has a bigger affect on the grappling dynamic-whether you wear a gi or not as opposed to grappling with gloves on and punching?

From my experience training in a gi does make your nogi better. With the gi you must have technical escapes-no relying on sweat to get you out of armbars. If the gi isn't your thing that is cool, I used to have no interest in it whatsoever but now I love rolling gi.

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Originally Posted by Conner MACHINE Gibbons

But on the street some guy wearing a leather jacket with a nice heavy coller is looking to kick your ass. Your looking at a dead man right there.

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A lot of people don't appreciate the value of gi training for self-defense. In reality, the bully, the unarmed mugger, or the mean drunk who steps up and tries to assault you is more likely to be wearing shirt and pants--and maybe a jacket or windbreaker to boot--than nothing but board shorts. If some drunken oaf tackles me from behind in a bar, a quick rolling loop choke will put him out and have me up and out of there a whole lot faster than trying to take his back and RNC him MMA style.

Proceed then fool.

I hate these opinion polls, because you will always have the turds who will tell you that a set of twins who; train with equally qualified instructors, partners and for the same amount of time with the only difference being one trains gi and the other no-gi, that the one who trains gi will be better at no-gi than the one who trains strictly no-gi. Mat time is mat time and the more you have of it the better your transitions and the better your positions will be. Thats why a judo player will be decent at greco-roman wrestling and vice-versa.

What the falcon? You know that they're jumping to start looking and this is not adequate. Let us know why you don't know Kate. When I got a bill that profits shifted from communities and just arriving sometime this year. Many pockets of muck are still in the parliament building. And it's good to have the paradise when it was like I mean we have never had a case here.

for me it's just a matter not wanting to rely on something that might not be there someday, same reason i won't ever get married again :)

i also don't see why you can't roll slow in no-gi so i just don't see a good reason for training gi unless your school requires it or you simply prefer to be cooked in pajamas while rolling.

If you want to train self defense roll in street clothes. I find that clothes and boots are quite different than a Gi. Besides,this is the 10th Planet forum,what did you expect,massive Gi support?

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Originally Posted by Don Blankenship

What the falcon? You know that they're jumping to start looking and this is not adequate. Let us know why you don't know Kate. When I got a bill that profits shifted from communities and just arriving sometime this year. Many pockets of muck are still in the parliament building. And it's good to have the paradise when it was like I mean we have never had a case here.

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oh. my.

this response honestly terrified me.

I don't buy the blanket statement that gi is better for street defense. At least not in So. Ca. where almost everyone wears shorts or jeans and a t-shirt. I think both would be relevant, but how many street fight videos have you seen where the guys about to fight take off their jackets or shirts before fighting?

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Originally Posted by Hax

I don't buy the blanket statement that gi is better for street defense. At least not in So. Ca. where almost everyone wears shorts or jeans and a t-shirt. I think both would be relevant, but how many street fight videos have you seen where the guys about to fight take off their jackets or shirts before fighting?

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A T-shirt, is a gi, for a one time only (and never to be worn again) choke.

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Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme

self defense ? GI mma ? no Gi, for a complete game, do both, remember the Gi simulates real life, any potential attacker will usually were a shirt, but if one or the other, choose GI, it's easy to adapt to no Gi, but it's '' funny '' to watch a strictly no Gi, player try the GI, it's like there fucking lost. there own fault for thinking there '' Too Cool '' to wear a GI

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It's nothing about being to cool to wear the gi it's just a preference and it goes the exact same way when a strictly gi player does no gi, without their grips and moves using the gi they can look lost too. See everything we can do in no gi we can do in the gi too but it doesn't go the other way.

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Originally Posted by stlnl

A T-shirt, is a gi, for a one time only (and never to be worn again) choke.

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i'd hate to find out my opponent was wearing a cheap t-shirt and have it rip in my hands trying that.

I agree with OP! If you want yo be an Olympic level wrestler, you better put that fakkin gi on.

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Originally Posted by Chris Odell (DSMMA)

i'd hate to find out my opponent was wearing a cheap t-shirt and have it rip in my hands trying that.

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I fully would expect it to stretch and rip, matter of fact, there is a way to roll it before choking someone where its like literally getting choked with a garrotte. So cheap wont matter at all.

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Originally Posted by D.Stachovak

If you want to train self defense roll in street clothes. I find that clothes and boots are quite different than a Gi. Besides,this is the 10th Planet forum,what did you expect,massive Gi support?

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The problem with rolling in certain street apparel is their lack of durability. The gi was conceived as a durable substitute for the Japanese kimono, and a lot of gi technique is transferrable to western garb as well--if you're used to choking people with a thick, stiff gi collar, it's all the more easier with the thinner collar of a dress shirt or windbreaker. I participated in a very interesting discussion on another forum where the subject of garb for military H2H instruction came up in a discussion of gi grappling. We thought that it would be a good idea if someone created a gi simulating a BDU shirt. It would be single weave fabric with a western style collar, and instead of lapel flaps held together by a tied belt, it would have a zip up or velcro front (as buttons would probably get torn off). And as you correctly alluded to above, realistic training would necessarily involve training in boots instead of barefoot.

I would also hasten to point out that I'm not trying to incite "massive gi support" on 10th Planet. I have Eddie Bravo's Jiu-Jitsu Unleashed on my bookshelf, I'm well aware of his views on the "sacred cloth," and I agree with him that if one is going to compete no gi that one should train no gi. The point I'm making is that in a self-defense scenario one needs to do what will get him up and out of there in as timely a fashion as possible. So if an assailant has fabric handles on his person which can be gripped and manipulated to effect that end, then learning how to exploit those fabric handles would be a good tool to have in one's self defense toolbox. In that respect, gi trainers already have some of those tools in their toolbox. In a previous post, I mentioned the efficacy of a loop choke--those things can be slapped on so fast that you can be out before you have time to tap. If I found myself in a scramble on a bar room floor and my attacker had a collar that could be gripped for a loop choke, that's the way I would go. Now if I'm on the beach at Rio in my trunks, and someone else in trunks comes up and slaps me, well then I would have to go with no gi.