So, what do you guys think about what's going on in Egypt? Are you with the Egyptian protestors? Are you worried about the stability of the country, region? Did you see the "pro-government" supporters riding around on horses and camels?
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So, what do you guys think about what's going on in Egypt? Are you with the Egyptian protestors? Are you worried about the stability of the country, region? Did you see the "pro-government" supporters riding around on horses and camels?
I am worried about all the innocent people caught up in this shit, especially youngins.
lets just thank our lucky stars that their military and weapon technology is pretty abysmal, could you imagine if they had our weaponry? psh goodbye middle east.... anyway, i think it will calm down soon, im following it closely
word is muslim extremist are behind it...israil is supposedly on alert...since it was muslims in egypt that started the 6 day war..
well considering that there are coutnless amounts of people that are muslims, especially in northern africa like egypt. its kinda hard to just say muslim extremists. i think the same would happen if obama or our priminister tried holding onto their power longer than they could and nobody could remove them, even though neither has done what they advertised to do :/
i just hope it ends quickly and nobody gets killed cos of this crap.
Remember, it's not the "muslim" part that is bad, it's the "extremist" part.
Everyone has some good points. We need to be very concerned about what happens in the rest of the world, especially these countries in the near and middle east. Generally, how one country goes, it's neighbors follow, and we're seeing that. We do need to worry about the innocents as and if, this starts to become too violent. And yes, it's not the "Muslim" part we need to worry about, it's the "Extremist" part. Listen, the U.S. and others pump BILLIONS into these small dicatorial regimes just to have some measure of control and peace and keep the radicals and violent anti-west and anti-semetic extremists out of power. I believe every nation of individuals deserves the right to self-govern without kings and dictatiors, so I'm for that. What I'm against is violent protest and allowing a radical, aggressive government to obtain power. Thankfully, the military appears to be staying as out of it as they can and they appear to be trying to protect people or maintain peace, but it won't last. It's very unstable over there right now. The sad thing is, that area of the world has ALWAYS been unstable. Sadly there has been little progress. It seems the radicals won't be happy until either side is dead and it's a shame. Both arguments have merit, but there seems to be such a deep rooted hatred of each side from the other that it will not change. And we, as westerners, don't seem equipped to deal with them.
fuck im! we give them too much money, and military aide as it is..
I won't for a second pretend to know what's really going on in Egypt, cuz I really don't. But I do get the impression that the revolt is really a legit uprising against the bullshit that goes on in their country. The youth seem to be foundation of the uprising. Similar to what happened in China, Tiananmen Square.
My hopes is that nothing happens to the Rancor pit.
The U.S. military will prolly set up shop at the site of the pyramids
Maybe we'll finally see whats under the Sphinx's paw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo
I think it's wonderful....the protests. This has been so powerful that both Jordan and Yemen are re-shuffling their governments to prevent ouster in their own countries. Due to our media we believe that the only 2 options for middle eastern countries are Theocracy or Dictatorship. The other option is democracy and this is what the people want. Egypt has a constitution...the problem is mubarack came into office under a state of emergency and hasn't taken it off in 30 years. He has took away freedoms and kept the resources we supplied him with for himself. He has only presented heavily rigged elections and the people have had enough.
Imagine if President Bush had've tried to suspend elections and have a 3rd term, we would have wrecked -ish! They've been dealing with this for 30 years. Bush hoped to destabilize the region to bring democracy in through the military..that didn't work..but here we are..by the will of the people. Egypt is pretty mainstream and I do not see them becoming some type of militant state or dictatorship.
best coverage is on al Jazeera (frankly it's one of the few unbiased sources of real journalism left)
english.aljazeera.net
but, yeah, james is spot on about "imagine if president bush had tried to suspend elections..." basically hosni mubarak has been in power for 30 years and having watched similar uprisings in yemen and tunisia the egyptian people took to the streets to demand he step down and democratic elections be held. the "pro-government" forces that have violently clashed with the protesters (because the military refused to respond with force) were paid by the mubarak government. in other words, they're not mubarak supporters but rather hired guns. now they're trying to remove journalists from the country which suggests, sadly, that mubarak is planning a response that he doesn't want the world to see... scary stuff. i'm proud of the people of egypt and terribly worried about the fate that may await them. then again the uprising could be a success. hard to tell at this point. mubarak has dismissed his government and said he wouldn't run again in the next "election" but that's different from stepping down which is what is being demanded now. in other words, they are relatively minor concessions that may be simply a means for him to buy time while he figures out how to crush the uprising.
please correct me if i've gotten any of this wrong.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by James Davis
Power to the people!
here's a pretty comprehensive update
http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/c...d_of_february/
I think you're pretty much spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickomang
I think the reason we've seen so much caution from the U.S. govt in how they're portraying this and talking about it is because we don't have a very good reputation around the world for helping out with democracies. We have a tendency to *help* install "democratic" leaders who are nothing of the sort (Iran in 1953, 90% of South America, Afghanistan, etc). We like democracy except when the people pick someone we don't like (e.g. the people of Palestine electing Hamas) then we tend to get a little more involved, usually through the CIA, and the people hate us for it. So we get one more country to add to the ever-growing list that hates us. I would like to hold out hope that we'll avoid that this time but we've done it so... many... times... I dunno. I have a not-so-good feeling about this and not because of the people of Egypt. I'm much more worried about the people of Washington.
My vote.. Egypt ends up becoming a muslim nation. Israel becomes surrounded. The muslim nations declare war on israel. America steps in to help Israel and then other countries step in to stop us. Eventually world war 3 is underway, we end up seeing the biggest death toll in human history.. and somehow Israel pulls through and takes some names. after the dust settles, all the surrounding countries get their butt handed to them and Israel becomes the new superpower.
ok thats slighly morbid.Quote:
Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu
most wars are.. which is why we should move to canada.. they tend to stay out of everything else happening in the world. plus if Cali is gone, at least we have that BC bud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
lmfao!!Quote:
Originally Posted by chris herzog
"Egypt ends up becoming a muslim nation"
Egypt is already a Muslim nation.
I don't really see anything good coming from any of it.
The Egyptians may loose a dictator, but what will they get in return?
So far, there are no real established democracies in the Middle East.
The chances of that actually happening will be very slim. ( just my opinion )
I do wonder what will happen to Israel.
It's obvious that they are hated in that region and it would suck to have one more
enemy surrounding you.
Plus, if the Muslim Brotherhood comes to power in Egypt, that could have implications for us all
since they want to shut down the Suez canal....
Crazy stuff going on.
My bad, i probably should have been more detailed. When i say "become" a muslim nation.. i was more referring to having more of a muslim agenda. though they are technically a muslim nation now, i would look at that similar to how i look at america as being labeld a "christian" nation.. sure thats technically the label, but lets be honest.. its not like we are basing our laws and agendas on christian principals. So for Egypt, i think if the brotherhood were to come into power.. we would begin to see a lot more acts based on their own personal beliefs. One of which being to try and take back their "holy land" from israel. and i believe seeing as though israel is about on the edge of war already, i would assume if egypt tries to pressure them into giving up their land also, we're going to see the crap hitteth thine fan. And seeing as though we are allies with israel (more-so than we are with egypt), I can only assume america is going to try to put their nose into things like always. (not saying that we shouldnt help israel, im just saying if there's a war.. we are pretty much always going to find a way to get involved). And so naturally if we jump in, we have to assume egypt and the rest of the middle eastern countries are going to have allies of their own. (and though it sounds crazy, i see China taking their side on this one.. just because of all of the mutual allies that China has with the middle eastern countries) So once us and china are involved.. its pretty much game over at that point.. everyone will feel forced to take sides. And then.. well, you read my other comment..Quote:
Originally Posted by swap
I was thinking a big rock right at the camels knee-cap then jumping to the back of the rider as he comes down, sinking in a quick choke then blending back into the crowd...But I guess politically speaking shits fucked up, yeah.
Revolution may be needed but it bothers me that innocent people are gonna get hurt. Isn't there like 7 countries going through a revolution?
The great revolts shaking the Arab world in Yemen, Algeria, Tunisia and now Egypt have caught everyone by surprise. They are, without a doubt, one of the most significant events of our time sending clearly out there the message that no place on this world is doomed to be some imperialist-backed-dictator’s playground. Extraordinarily authoritarian regimes like that of Ben Ali were shown completely powerless in the face of a united and determined people on struggle. The people carrying these rebellions are youth, workers, unemployed, the poor, who are right now shaping the face of the region, sending cold shivers to the cliques sitting in Washington Just thought I'd post a bit of this article
1. It seems that all of a sudden massive waves of protests are shaking the foundations of long standing oppressive regimes in the Arab world… were there any signs that these protests could happen?
That is one of the interesting things about this revolutionary wave spreading in the Arab world, it struck exactly when almost no one was expecting it. Few days only before the mass demonstrations in Egypt, the US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, declared the Egyptian government to be stable, and now nothing is stable in the area: the masses are on revolt and everywhere the repressive regimes are expecting the worst. There are things in common to these big incidents, which went unnoticed to the regimes, the statesmen and even the intellectuals, such as the anger which was there, hidden, silenced by the repression of the States, the poverty and unemployment that were on the rise everywhere… but the governments, local and western alike, thought that this anger could be kept under control… we now know how wrong they were.
2. What’s the significance of the flight of Ben Ali in Tunisia?
It is only the first step of the cascade to follow. It meant that people, revolting people, can defy the repression and win. It is very early to talk about the final solution yet, it is still all too complex now, but the people got to know their real power and are still in the streets, so the struggle is still open to many possibilities.
3. Where is the revolt spreading to? What countries are now facing massive rebellions?
Now we can say with confidence that anywhere could be next. Maybe Algeria, Yemen and Jordan are hot spots for revolt, but we have to keep in mind that an Egyptian revolution would have a great impact everywhere, beyond the worst expectations of all the dictators and their supporters anywhere.
4. What’s the actual implication of a revolution in Egypt, the second largest recipient of US military aid in the world?
Egypt is the biggest country in the Middle East and its strategic role is very important. It is one of the main pillars of the US Middle East policy. Even if the old regime could survive for some time or even if the new regime would be pro-American, the pressure of the masses will be always there from now on. In a word, the US, the main supporter of the current regime, will suffer badly due to the revolt of the Egyptian masses.
5. What’s been the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in these protests? What’s been the role of the old guard of the left?
One thing that is very important about these demonstrations and rebellions is that they were totally spontaneous and initiated by the masses. It is true that different political parties joined later, but the whole struggle was to a great extent a manifestation of the autonomous action of the masses. That is true also for the Islamist political groups. Maybe these groups think now that any election could bring them to power, but with revolting masses in the streets this is difficult, I think that the masses will actively refuse to submit again to any repressive power, but even if this could happen, people will not accept this time to be just subjects, most of all with fresh euphoric memories of the peak of freedom they won by their own struggle. No power could that easily force them to submit again to any kind of repressive regime.
Another thing you have to keep in mind is that with revolutions people will be more open to libertarian and anarchist ideas, and liberty will be the hegemonic idea of the time, not authoritarianism. Some of the Stalinist groups just represent the ugly face of authoritarian socialism… for example, the ex-Tunisian Communist Party participated alongside the ruling party of Ben Ali in the government that was formed after the overthrow of Ben Ali himself! Another authoritarian group, the Tunisian Workers Communist Party, participated actively in the demonstrations, but could only expose its contradictions: it called at the very moment of Ben Ali’s escape to form local councils or committees to defend the revolt, just to retract very soon and call for a new assembly and government. In Egypt it is almost the same happening, there are reformist left groups, such as the Progressive Unionist Party, and some other groups of revolutionary authoritarian leftists.
I cannot tell exactly about the role of anarchists and other libertarians -there is a growing council communist tendency beside our anarchist one- due to lack of communication with our comrades there, but I have to stress what I’ve said before: that these revolutions were made mainly by the masses themselves. In Tunisia, the strong local trade unions played a big role in the late stages of the revolt.
I want to talk in more detail about the local committees formed by the masses, which are one of the most interesting manifestations of its revolutionary action. In the face of the looting started mostly by the ex-secret police, people formed these committees as really democratic institutions, a real competition to the power of the ruling elite and its authoritarian institutions… in Egypt now there are two governments; the local committees and the Mubarak government that is hidden behind the tanks and the rifles of its soldiers. This is happening in a region that is used to dictatorships and authoritarianism… that is the great thing about revolutions, that they transform the world so fast. That doesn’t mean that the struggle has been won; on the contrary, this means that the real struggle has just started.
6. To summarize, what’s your view on the current events? what do you think they simbolize?
This is the start of a new era, the masses are rising, and their freedom is at stake, the tyrannies are shaken, it is for sure the start of a new world.
Ok now I posted to much I'm done lol
"Since March the 9th, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency."
"According to the United States Constitution, Article 1, only Congress shall make federal law. However, since the War and Emergency Powers Act of 1933, every president has usurped lawmaking powers. Their 'laws' are called Executive Orders (EOs). These EOs, not our Constitution, are what is governing America today. The War and Emergency Powers Act enables ... the president to declare a national emergency, and thereby become a dictator."[1]
So who initiated all of these emergency powers?
On March 3, 1933, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York adopted a resolution stating that the withdrawal of currency and gold from the banks had created a national emergency, and "the Federal Reserve Board is hereby requested to urge the President of the United States to declare a bank holiday, Saturday March 4, and Monday, March 6".
Roosevelt was told to close down the banking system. He did so with Proclamation 2039 under the excuse of alleged unwarranted hoarding of gold by Americans. Then with Proclamation 2040, he declared on March 9, 1933 the existence of a national bank emergency whereas
"all Proclamations heretofore or hereafter issued by the President pursuant to the authority conferred by section 5(b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended, are approved and confirmed".
Once an emergency is declared, there is no common law and the Constitution is automatically abolished. We are no longer under law. Law has been abolished. We are under a system of War Powers. Our stocks, bonds, houses, and land can be seized as Americans are considered enemies of the state. What we have is not ours under the War Powers given to the President who is the Commander-in-Chief of the military war machine.
Whenever any President proclaims that the national emergency has ended, all War Powers shall cease to be in effect. Congress can do nothing without the President's signature because Congress granted him these emergency powers. For over 60 years, no President has been willing to give up this extraordinary power and terminate the original proclamation. Americans are an enemy subject to tribunal district courts under Martial Law wartime jurisdiction; a Constitutional Dictatorship.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...onal_emergency
http://www.apfn.net/MESSAGEBOARD/07-...on.cgi.97.html
This is why the president will often be referred to as commander and chief............. Maybe next election you could ask the candidate if they would declare that the national emergency has ended. Only a man who truly believes in democracy would do that.
i hope the mummy is ok
From what I heard, the mummy is not ok. Lots of priceless artifacts possibly damaged and looted. I hope I'm wrong.
I support the people of Egypt 100%. We Modern Day Americans don't know what it's like to fight for anything anymore. The fact that they are upset that their leader has been ruling for 25+ years. They don't have it any where near as nice as we do & they are fighting like we have in the past to make things better. I think we should butt out & let whatever happens, happen. Showed a lot of courage that Egypt called up their military & the people stayed in their & kept fighting. That takes big balls & my hat is off to them.