http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-p7-vOhzlw
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why do they still think people talk shit on them, its astonishing
I don't get this shit..this is coming from a dude that wasn't even into BJJ 6 months ago...but still...let's see...
Eddie is a Machado Black Belt in the Gi...guy beats Royler as a Brown. Belts...starts 10th planet...writes some books, gives props to the gracie's....but every gracie hates him? How does that work? It all comes down to one thing...that you can't beat a gracie fair and square and start up a school. Oh, and you better not smoke weed and make up cool names either...I mean far be it for people to actually be able to identify them. Maybe he should visit HQ and roll with eddie...
What I do see is Rener's crew talking about what is REAL JIU JITSU and all of that and if you are not learning in Torrance you're not learning Gracie Jiu Jitsu...and there's some mess going on with his uncle Renzo where they told one of his uncle's students that they shouldn't go to torrance because what he learned in New York wasn't real Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Renzo went on an epic rant...like he said..put that shit on the mat.
I just think the whole gracieuniversity thing is trying to make BJJ Tae Kwon Do. I get nervous where anyone talks about "real self-defence stitch e ation"...that stuff gets your ass beat! Sure I'm a bullshido disciple so I don't buy anything can prepare you for a real street fight because there are too many factors...just saying...ok..I'm off topic...
i don't believe he is implying Eddie is one of those guys...
I like memory games.
Eddie creates new moves and names them so in a way he is talking about Eddie.
yeah....no way he could be talking about anyone accept eddie...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Timmermans
for the naming techniques...but not the talking shit
but that's just it...no one is talking shit about gracie jiu jitsu...they are talking shit about everyone else...Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismasonic
some thing i notice is that he give gives other people shit for saying they came up with a new system but thats what his family did from Japanese jujitsu and he doesn't mention that.
Could be Hughes?
Tyler is a wise person!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Timmermans
Wow, Royce's RNC is so tight it puts you into a dream, that's some strong shit.
Yeah, he should charge $5 for a lucid dream.
Did somebody say something about tigers?
I don't know if I would say that. Last year I registered with Gracie University to get access to their free 1st lesson to see what it was like. I think they show it for free now without without registering but I digress.Quote:
Originally Posted by James Davis
Anyway I searched 10th Planet in their forum and this was one of the things I found.
Q. What is the thought on Eddie Bravo and what he has done for jiu jitsu?
CG (7/2/2009 10:12 PM)
A. He's very talented, and has obviously brought a lot to the modern game of jiu-jitsu. His approach to JJ does differ from our philosophy toward fighting and toward life in general, however. You can read up more on our philosophy on this site, as well as at www.gracieacademy.com .
GracieAcademy2
I'm not sure if describing Eddie as very talented and crediting him with bringing alot to the modern game of Jiu-jitsu could be described as hate. At least to me anyway. I have never been to the Gracie academy but I have heard from various people that Rener and Ryron themselves are very respectfull of other styles of Jiu-jitsu. Not sure about the other instructors or students there though given the Renzo incident.
who created these "names" for the moves? haha my father did not need names....
You need to know your basic's. Thats the only thing i picked up of use. Basic's are very important. Remember, without Royce or the family, ufc would not be where its at. And he is way more popular than any fighter.I came from a Royce Gracie black belt. And have trained many times with him. But without Eddie Bravo, i would never be where im at in my jiujitsu.
I'm going more off of what Eddie himself has said whenever he comes across a gracie or one of their students. Of course I don't literally mean every single gracie.Quote:
Originally Posted by James III
This guy is pissed because some body took his material and improved and evolved it for a new sport in a new century ... which is what they did with kimura's material ... yeah read ur history royce, helio lost to that guy so yall took his stuff, claimed it as ur own, and evolved it, so keep ur basics we will keep creating... I have read material from every major mind in jiu jitsu today and i can not find any one more creative and humble than Eddie... that guy is my fuckin hero! He makes this stuff available to everyone, because he wants to have an even playing field otherwise you can never know who is truly the best... he never entered a competition in which he had to face basically unarmed opponents to look good... This shit is all from China and Japan and you dont see them complaining. Keep up the good work Eddie and all the awesome, intelligent minds at 10th planet
Good post Zach.
Uh yeah actually he could, what about the spider guard or the De La Riva guard, The "barbosa" guard, the 50/50, The Darce/Brabo choke, etc. etc. All of these names were made up from other people as well. No where in the video did he specifically call out Eddie or 10th Planet. You guys are all up in arms and getting defensive over nothing. Obviously he is referring to you people who are getting pissy over this, as Gracie haters because in a way you are. You think he is specifically referring to Eddie and 10th Planet when he said no such thing and you're getting your panties in a wad. There has been quite a few techniques/guards "invented" and named. Quit reading so much into petty things and if you think your system is better then put on your big boy undies and let your Jiu Jitsu do your talking on the mat at some comps.Quote:
Originally Posted by James Davis
It really doesn't matter who he is talking about; he's still wrong, and he's still saying things that are simply untrue. To think that the evolution of the art is over and that naming moves is bad is the silliest thing I've heard in a while. Names simply help people know exactly what position you are in when doing a certain movement. It isn't there to test your memory. That, and proof that the art is evolving is IN those new guard styles coming up and from new moves that came up like in 10th Planet JJ. The whole thing shows that evolution is constant. With what Royce is saying, it sounds like he would have Gracie JJ go the way of Kung Fu and Karate, and just age past usefulness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Kipness
I had a whole paragraph written but i was sure it would have started a fire, so i'll just say this.
Royce...
*BIIIIIIIG sigh*
calm down cowboy...I love gracie jiu jitsu...I just was questioning the 10th planet hateQuote:
Originally Posted by Robert Kipness
and that's the point. No one is butt hurt about Royce having issues with innovation. That shit always gets solved on the mat anyway. However, when it comes to what Royce and Rener are doing with the REAL GRACIE JIU JITSU marketing and real self-defence stitch ee ation promotion ....I'm with Renzo..they appear to be trying to turn BJJ into Tae Kwon Do or Karate....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
http://thefightworkspodcast.com/2009.../renzo-gracie/
See, this whole thing about the Real Jiu Jitsu and negativity about innovation is purely on the marketing tip. I don't even thing Royce has a problem with 10th planet...but if people start thinking their spot is the only REAL JIU JITSU then they have the ultimate marketing. I went to a couple of gracie spots and mentioned submission wrestling and 10th planet and was told that 10th planet wasn't real BJJ....I'm like, Eddie's a machado black belt..how can it not be real BJJ.
This is happening and as the popularity of BJJ grows we it is obvious that some have taking to talking shit about others for profit. It's just from my opinion and experience. I will never train at a place that shits on someone else's system or discourages cross training or rolling with other schools.
It sounds like he is talking about Eddie but i think he is not. He is mixing the Gracie JJ haters with the people who want to roll using advanced showtime moves without perfecting the basics, talking down on both of them together.
I did train under one of Royce's black belts before, almost all of us were white or very new blue belts and we drilled armbar, kimura, triangle, lapel choke, armlock, guard pass, get on your knees from side control, mount from side control and keep the mount day in day out, nothing else. They really stick to basics and favor of perfecting them before moving on to anything else.
Again when Eddie finishes an armbar, he does not twist the arm in a way that has never been or seen before. He forces the elbow joint to bend backwards and gets the tap, just like GJJ does, which is the basics. How he gets there is his own style, which was dictated by and suited to his strength, stamina, size of his extremities and his overall body composition. He evolved them to a point where others can learn an adapt his style which is respectable and undeniable no matter how hard you try.
On a different note, I do not agree with Royce on Gracie's the reason why everybody is feeding on this industry. Well wrestling, throws, guard, submissions...overall grappling existed before Helio Gracie was a vitamin C molecule in an orange prior his own father ate it and converted him to a sperm. Rorion created UFC as a marketing tool and he was not trying to open the eyes of the word to BJJ, he was not trying to teach this ultimate art to the weak and poor so they can defend themselves on the streets. He was trying to make money and they made a good amount of it. If you really look for people to thank to since the industry is so big and people can make a living off teaching jiu jitsu, go thank Dana White and Fertita brothers.
Great video. Some of the comments cause my heart feel sick though.
I talked to Renato, and he said he was calling in "his guy" Rev. Jesse Jackson to settle this peacefully :)
lol!! That Black Guy...That Jesse Jackson Guy...He's my guy!Quote:
Originally Posted by john botello
I don't see how Royce can say there's nothing new. You can't compare jiu jitsu to boxing. True, no one has invented a new punch in boxing...but there have been plenty of new techniques invented since the days when Helio Gracie developed GJJ.
I don't know if it's just me but this back and forth between Jiu-jitsu camps is becoming exceedingly obnoxious. We waste way to much time on this forum talking about it.
I'm borderline thrown off by the title of this thread, im sensing sarcasm bc it really does sound like Eddie fits into the category of one of those ppl Royce is talking about...aside from the talking shit about the Gracie family, we know thats not the truth
not to mention boxing has evolved quite a bit from the 20's until now. Boxers had to change how they punched with the advent of gloves. Then things changed again when boxers stopped until someone was knocked out. Scoring changed many boxing techniques. Sure, a hook is still a hook and a jab is still a jab, however there are different approaches and innovations, with stances and defense, not to mention individual style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric
I really don't think it's a back and forth. When is eddie critiquing the gracies ever? When are any of his students? What I see is a continual push by royce and rener to trademark BJJ and talk shit about anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas White
It is obvious who Royce is talking about. So why did he feel the need to even speak on it? Just think...Rogan is a 10th planet guy and he calls out the moves in reference to the 10th planet system. Kids are coming into BJJ spots talking about crackhead control and chill dog. The 10th planet terminology is becoming the de facto standard of describing moves and ground action for the most popular MMA body. When you think of it, it really does make sense.
Rener is a lot more elegant about it and is very careful not to say things that would start funk with other camps, but it all comes back to...if you are not doing Gracie (Torrance) Jiu Jitsu you are not doing real BJJ.
Excellent point...their family took a style of a martial art and evolved and adapted it to modern day street fighting. How is this any different that taking their hybrid style and evolving it and adapting it to MMA and cage fighting???Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Timmermans
The beauty of Gracie Jiu Jitsu is due in part from the fact that it's origins come from taking the knowledge gained from learning Japanese Jiu Jitsu and transforming it into something their own and practical for their environment. This same beauty shines through in the advancements made in this martial art by the likes of Eddie, Marcelo, Caio, and Jeff Glover to name a few, and is inspired by the likes of men such as Helio Gracie.
I am looking forward to a response from Eddie, but perhaps he said all he needed to when he started this post. "Can't we all just get along."
I think you're right. 10th planet moons are popping up all around...the grappler tournaments, mma fighters and happy students speak for themselves.
MMA is going to replace boxing...it's pretty much a done deal..kids want to be mma fighters...they are getting into wrestling, boxing, muay thai and BJJ...
There's going to be plenty of money to be made for everyone.
Huge fan of Royce, can never forget what he has done in MMA but to me he has got it wrong comapring Jiu-jitsu to Boxing.
In boxing you can only your two arms in a punching motion while standing. In Jiu-jitsu you can use your whole entire body in a huge variety of ways. Really strange comparison to make in my opinion. Especially all the new moves that have been created in BJJ and the potential to make even more.