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BJ is an incredible grappler. However, he has a tendancy of getting layed on. Wouldn't six to eight months of rubber guard training with Eddie help things along. A change might do him good. I don't think his game has evolved off of his back. I understand that there is alot more to think about in MMA, but this is where he always winds up at 170.
Agreed.
I am in no position to critique BJ Penn but it seems that when his last ditch effort attempt against frikkin GSP didn't work, he kinda gave up on the rg. This is clearly just speculation, someone with more info on the subject feel free to set me straight. Huga da neee.
and was only able to retain guard for the most of it but did u see how he stood up repeatedly in the first and 2nd? And taking down Fitch (the elite wrastler) was nothing less than badass! Back to the subject; I do believe working RG with Eddie can only help his game.
Bj Penn - one bad mother fucker! :)
BJ has always (as long as I can remember at least) used his guard as a defensive tool. If he ends up in full or half guard, he whips in a butterfly hook and uses it to stand. I think he used his guard to put Matt Hughes in some trouble towards the end of a round in their 2nd fight, but other than that I can't remember much offensive guard work from him over the years.
Also, BJ was up against the cage the entire 3rd round. It's really hard to move and create the angles you need to be effective when you are stuck against the cage like that, especially when Jon Fitch is essentially throwing a 3 minute long combination at you. Propers to Fitch for never letting up the pace and giving Penn a chance to get the fight back to a standing or clinched position.
Penn would have won that match if he didn't eat the right from Fitch at the beginning of the third round.
Agree, BJ has a weak bottom game! Compared to the rest of his game. Rogan commented on that...I think in the second fight with Edgar. I don't think he puts in the time against top level wrestlers or even top level jiu jitsu guys with a great top game. I know he worked with Hughes for a little bit but please!
I think BJ has a great bottom game. He just doesn't use it to focus on submissions for MMA. He uses it to avoid damage, rest, or regain his feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
Did anyone else notice that Fitch escaped back control twice because BJ had his legs crossed?
the guard is the most offensive position in jiujitsu, just wish BJ used his more, even a over under with gable would shut down Fitch's punches, not to mention thers game from there
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
Weak? put in the time? Have you ever seen the vids of Penn grappling with leo Vierra? Pretty eye opening regarding how good he is off his back. I think his biggest issue is WHEN he ends up on his back in a fight (worn out and exhausted) than what he can and cant do off his back. I feel his issues could be more Fitness/conditioning related than purely to technical prowess.
Everyone has seen the game that he has off of his back. MMA is a game of time. Not what the original Vale Tudo was. BJ has to force the game off of his back. Rubber Guard is a new look and fairley safe compared to all the other guards. All that I am saying is that I would like to see him get in some reps with the master. Did you see Matt Serra against GSP? Sitting in the Lockdown getting smashed. When you want chicken you go to KFC. When you want the Rubber Guard you go to the master.
You do NOT go to KFC for chicken dude.
You should read the next sentence and stop focusing on one word "weak". It was compared to the rest of his game! Was Leo striking on Penn in the video? I doubt it!!! Were talking about MMA not ADCC, Big difference. Does BJ currently train with Leo before his fights now? I don't believe that's true. I believe BJ doesn't train with anybody superior to his jiu jitsu and wrestling skill so in training he's just dominating and on top not drilling his guard. Awhile back there was fighter named Dave Terrell BJJ black belt dominated everybody with his wrestling and jiu jitsu. Amazing top game until he met the late Evan Tanner. Evan got him on his back and Terrel was lost...looked like he's never been in that position ever! Joe Rogan comments on David Terrell and BJ Penn (I think 2nd fight with Edgar) were similar about working on their guard and that they're so dominating on top that they don't put enough time on their MMA GUARD. Yes, I think cardio played a factor too.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlnl
BJ did everything I wanted him to... Which was make sure Fitch didn't get a title shot.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyK5
in the 3rd round his shoulders were up against the cage and fitch was in his guard
so his hips were SUPER BLOCKED up thee ass, which means no subs just defending
Not to be a prick... But why does everyone always seem to give these "baddest man on the planet" awards to mma fighters? Seems like elite boxers/kickboxers/muay thai fighters are always left out
Don't worry man, the award is unofficial.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmafan555
BJ didnt do anything that was bad tech or weak though in either of those fights, he was, tired when he got on bottom against Fitch, and the sort of crushing pressure Fitch put on him pretty much ensured he wasnt going anywhere. I feel his conditioning would be the biggest benfactor of training with a better camp. His "mma" guard is fine. Just because you cant get much offense off your back against a couple of the best fighters on the planet, doesnt suddenly mean your guard is weak compared to the rest of your game.........Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
I have also trained Muay Thai for a number of years as well as BJJ and my honest assesment is the answer is pretty simple an MMA Fighter = well rounded in all aspects of the game (striking takedowns ground positional control and submissions) where as a top level striker is only good in his one area while effective in that one element its easy to see that even a B level MMA fighter will probably beat a top level striker 9 times out of 10 in the Cage or on the street in a one on one fight. With all that said its pretty simple to see why MMA fighters = "Baddest Men on the Planet"Quote:
Originally Posted by mmafan555
Didn't mean to start a war boys. Just would like BJ to show a different look. All of his MMA fights have been top profile fights. There is tape of him everywhere. AKA say there is a blueprint to beat him. I think he is the best. I am a huge fan of his stuff. I just like what Eddie does.
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Originally Posted by Daniel Elizondo
Yes of course thats true that mma will beat any single pure form[ like boxing or kickboxing] ...But how does that make them the "baddest men on the planet"... Fitch could beat prime Roy Jones with ease in an mma fight... but is he really the "badder man".... No not imo. MMA while more effective is definitely not imo any tougher than boxing or muay thai/k1. Boxing has produced some of the toughest athletes in history and so has pure muay thai and k1.