What do you guys consider months of experience if you can only train 1 to 2 times a week with no one more experienced to guide you?
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What do you guys consider months of experience if you can only train 1 to 2 times a week with no one more experienced to guide you?
I dont understand the question. What do you mean what would someone consider it?
If you are using this to gauge your experience level for competiton (as to what division you should enter) the accepted method is the calendar. You dont get to train a couple years, and say since you only trained a day or two a week, you should be in a 6mo experience division.
If, however, it is your first competition, sandbagging is nothing new in the novice/beginner divisions and you wont really be hurting anyone if you enter them (guaranteed in one wt div in the beginner div, there is sure to be at least one college wrestler there), just be aware when you pull off some great move, you may be beating some poor guy who just started training two months ago. So the real question is are you competing to feel good about yourself, or to improve yourself (by testing your skills)?
It would definitely be for improving myself and for getting a feel for competition. I'm pretty in shape, but as anyone who saw my video has seen, there are enormous holes in my game. The problem is since I essentially teach the people I train with (barring the occasional ex-wrestler) I only get a feel for what they do (which is what I have suggested they do). I want to do NAGA Georgia in July, but I don't want to spend money knowing I'd get crushed in the first match in Beginner.
How is it you know you will get crushed?
i'm in the exact same situation. once i've got enough money together, i'm gonna go down to the nearest 10th planet for a couple of days and see if the instructor can gauge my level.
You should enter the beginner divisoin.
you need to find a real school man. even if you have to move. if its important to you you will figure something out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Hermann
"How do I know I will get crushed"
I don't. I guess I'm just saying that I lack an appropriate measure of what skill levels the people are that enter Beginner. If they are literally fresh off the boat never even been in a school fight before type of people then I would go Beginner but if they have been going for a solid 3-4 months and have their fundamentals down, I'm most likely going to get caught hard. People can learn a lot in 6 months.
"i'm in the exact same situation. once i've got enough money together, i'm gonna go down to the nearest 10th planet for a couple of days and see if the instructor can gauge my level."
Yeah, I'm thinking when it comes time to register I'll contact Alliance BJJ and see if they'll let me roll with some of their blue belts as a test. Also, we could probably keep in contact and trade of training videos.
"you need to find a real school man. even if you have to move. if its important to you you will figure something out."
I'm in a real school, Georgia Institute of Technology. This place sucks up more of your life than World of Warcraft and a full time job combined. I pull 12+ hour days very often. In addition to that it's located in the heart of Atlanta where even owning a car and having a place to park is will cost several hundreds of dollars a month. Time and money man, I train when I can. Believe me, if I could afford a school both the time and the money for it I would in a heartbeat.
Just enter the beginner div, if you are worried about losing to people with 4 months experience, I would say, maybe competing isnt for you. Not because it matters if they win, but if your concerns are losing to guys who actually train at schools and train several times a week, well that will be 90% of the people there.......
You don't seem to get it...
It's not losing. And it's not about losing to be who train at schools. I don't give two shits about losing. But I want to be in a division where I can put up a fight and enjoy my competition experience.
I just don't know how good the beginners are or how bad the novice class is. I have no measurement of my abilities and if I enter Beginner and get destroyed 1st round I still wont have any measurement. I wouldn't know if I wasn't ready, or if the guy was a freak of nature, or if he just got lucky.
I do get it. You asked how many months you are considered to be "training". I told you, the accepted means of measure is simple, its the calendar. That means of measure apparently puts you into a division you dont want to try to enter, or at least think you dont want to enter. If you do get destroyed by a beginner, you do realize you get to watch the whole tournament and see what other folks do, how they compete, etc, and that many times is as big a learning experience as competing for a new person.
If you enter Novice, no one knows you have more time training than you say you do, so its up to you. However if you honestly feel that is your level, just enter there at that level, rather than asking here to feel empowered with your decision (because the answers might not be the ones you expected) since its your decision, and yours alone anyway.
Low end divs, novice and beginner are legendary for sandbaggers though, so to be hoenst, it may not really matter what division you enter. Take the experience for what it is, entering a tournament, and take in everything, how guys warm up, the games good guys run, etc.
That's why I came here. I don't have access to many of the resources you guys do. I'm not in this for pride or ego, and I'm definitely not here to cheat someone out of what they have earned. If I don't belong in the Novice division I have no problem entering Beginner. I'm not here for validation or empowerment. I know you guys probably get a ton of that. What I'm really getting at are two things:
An honest assessment of my skills and knowledge in comparison to the skill levels that enter Novice division.
and/or
A method to discern what would be the best div to enter.
I want the learning experience. I want the fun. What I don't want is for people to be (metaphorically) eying me suspiciously because I have no method of judging where I should enter, or what skill level I am. And I definitely don't want to screw over some kid who is vastly less experienced than myself.
Just do the beginner division. I saw your video and trust me, you're not screwing over anyone by entering the beginners div. I'm not trying to be mean but what do you expect if you train yourself and only with people that don't train either. You go to a school for quality instruction, mat time and good training partners. Those 3 things are whats going to make you better and you currently don't have much of any. Also, 10th Planet should not be the only place you go for techniques and especially not just at submissions101. Just like people get caught from not knowing 10th Planet moves, you'll get caught from not knowing the basics.
You say beginner, but are you referring to novice? Beginner is 6mo - 2yrQuote:
Originally Posted by JusLove
I think the novice division would be fine. You aren't studying under any coach, your training partners aren't training at a gym, you have only been doing it for a little while. If you want a better barometer of your skills, then go up to beginner.
I will say it again. Go as a beginner.... You are a beginner. There is nothing wrong with that. good luck!
I just don't want you guys thinking I'm intentionally trying to sandbag in the competition. I want to go out and rep myself and 10P and fight as hard as I can for someone who doesn't have a teacher or experienced training partners. I'm going to train hard until the comp and then see how I feel when I register. I have a few friends who wrestled in high school that I may be able to learn some stuff from and I still plan on visiting Alliance when I can and humbly ask them to let me roll with their students.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dewitt Jr
Also, if you guys don't mind I'll occasionally put up videos here and you can tell me if you see improvement and give advice.
yes, novice. sorry. but hey, if you feel confident in your skills, it never hurts to go up a class. in fact, I prefer it. either div. you enter, you'll know where you should be afterwards. if you win novice, then beginners is for you. if you get manhandled in beginners then net tourney should be at novice. however, all this theoretical debate could be avoided if you just take one class at a gym and see how you do against people of novice/beginner skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Hermann
No one is going to think you are a sandbagger at all. Just get that exp man. A little bit of advice though when repping schools. Most schools do not like it if you rep them and have never trained with them. The reason is if some one reps are school and maybe even shows up a once or twice and gets SMASHED at a tournament. They just ran that schools name/instruction into the ground. People will look at that as damn those 10thplanet guys don't know sh!t. lol. Just an example. I am not getting down on you at all I just want you to be informed. Since this is a small community. Oh and do put up videos that is a good thing! Take care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Hermann
Just from what I say on your video you posted I say novice because you have no wrestling, you just started and you are not directly learning under any trainer or even in a class. Nobody is going to think you are intentionally sandbagging, you aren't training at any gym with any experienced partners. Keep training, get in an academy, and train! Novice is perfect for guys like you!
Hey buddy, I live in atl, we should roll sometime, I love to teach!
I think most of you guys are missing the point. He didn't seem to ask for what division we thought he should compete in, he seemed to be asking how do you determine which skill division to compete in, and if the amount of training time was a steadfast rule or a guideline. I think it's a very difficult question to answer, and all I can offer is my experiences. When I did my first NAGA, I had only one local tournament under my belt, and was right around a year in experience. I was very worried about how I would do, what to expect, if I was going to be one-and-done. I ended up winning first, and completely blowing my competition out of the water, but while I watched all my opponents go, they looked very competent and scary. It is very hard to gauge your progress and skill level, but I've had tournaments where I win all my matches and some that I've lost my first, and they all were great experiences for me, though winning is generally more enjoyable. I had a teammate who faced a similar dilemma with no tournament experience, and another teammate told him to do novice. When he asked me for my advice, I told him not to do novice, and that I believed in his ability to do beginner. He ended up taking first place, and he really blew me away with his ability to step up to the challenge, showing me he was even better than I had assumed. I think in the end it's your decision where you should compete, but from what I can tell there seems to be several people in here that feel you'd fit in either, so I would try to instead of focusing on what skill division you'll do, try and focus on being as prepared mentally and physically for the task as possible, that way you can make the most of the experience.
Enter beginner. If you stomp on everyone, stop entering beginner. It's fine if you accidentally sandbag once or twice to figure out where your level is. If you do it repeatedly to pile up wins, then you suck.
I just fought my first nogi tournament, and lost in the semis to a guy with 16 professional MMA bouts, and like 12 years of wrestling. I actually should have won, and was ahead on points, but misread the time on the clock and made a dumb mistake. I was a little annoyed at first, but then he came over, was really nice, and explained that he had never done a submission tournament, and wanted to see if his BJJ was good enough to fight advance. Fair enough, I would have done the same thing. Point is, don't worry too much about that as you first start to compete. Figure out where your level is by fighting, and enter into divisions accordingly.
BTW, this is why I think nogi tournaments need more divisions. Beginner, Advanced, and occasionally Intermediate? Gi has White (often beginner White and Advanced White), Blue, Purple, Brown, and Black. I understand that fighters with no BJJ rank need to compete at higher levels (wrestlers, judoka, sambo fights, etc.), but just allow people to register at any level, using the belts as guidelines. You could call them Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Expert, and Elite or something if you want instead. Like I said above, people will easily figure out what level they belong in based on their results. I always thought it was ridiculous to see blue belts enter into advanced nogi and fight black belts.
Hey louis, have you checked out Unit 2 fitness on ponce de leon? I know money is an issue but free trials are great to use and in atl you could get like months of training for free and get a feel for those cats. I liked Unit 2 and there is another 3x sports or something like that, ride the trial class wave bro ain't no shame, they offer them for you to use them. Sorry I know a lil off topic But I used to live on west marrietta st right across from Ga tech. as far as that comp thing goes just do novice if they feel like your sbagging they'll move ya. just go and rip it cuh!
Sorry, I meant enter novice. Most of my local tournaments are just beginner and advanced. Didn't realize yours had more
Why do you keep asking if you think you are novice is my question then? If you feel that is where you belong......just enter Novice? I dont understand asking a question, but not wanting the answer? The calendar is how you determine "months training" and once you enter some tourneys, they track you, so that if you dont train and enter another one with the same folks 2 years later, you must go a division up. They dont ask who you have been training with, or have you been training, they just go by time that passes from one event to the next time they see you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Hermann
I dont think there is any issue with entering novice, the grappling vid you posted, you wont have to worry about folks raising eyebrows. I dont mind what you enter, it just seems to me you are fishing for the answer you want (novice) rather than the answer the calendar seems to be saying to you (beginner). But for purposes of greater flexibility, Novice is better anyway, as I think Naga does the tracking thing, so you could track out of beginner next time around if too much time passes (dont hold me to that).