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When I'm Rolling And Get Put In Am Ankle Lock I Don't Feel It. I Don't Know If I Should Just Tap Early Or If I Should Be Okay With It, I Mean I Don't Want My Ankle To Be Dislocated But I Don't Want To Just Tap For Something I don't Feel. I Need Some Advise On What To Do. :confused:
ironic you should say that.. i am down in decatur right now training a bit and i had the same question yesterday. For some reason everytime i was put in a straight ankle lock, i never felt pain or enough pressure to ever feel threatened. So i let the instructor get me in one and show me what was (or wasnt) going on. And i found 2 things he did different that made me tap. #1.. he didnt just lay flat on his back when he torqued it. He took it to the side and got on his hip. Which changes the angle a bit. And #2 instead of just going straight back, he cranked at a slight angle. still doing the straight ankle, just someone off center. Which I know the straight ankle locks still work, ive tapped people with them and see people tap all the time from them.. but i think there are some people with just naturally flexable ankles and a high pain tolerance in their lower calves/acl so the basic one doesnt tend to work. But try having someone go on their side and crank it a little off center the same direction you would perform a heel hook and see if that works. I know it did on me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Prigan
somewhat* off center
Video please for the off center/hip style straight ankle lock demo. I'm one of those guys who doesn't really feel straight ankle lock pain enough to tap from pain, but I also don't want it to get destroyed and be put in rehab so I'll tap anyway. Tap today and come back to roll another day right?
i'll bring my flip to class tonight and try to record it if im able. Then get it on here as soon as i can.
One girl wasn't tapping to my half Boston crab so I switched my grip to a double bicep figure four grip (like a RNC grip) and slightly twisted my shoulders, dipping my right shoulder down while increasing my squeeze. That seemed to do the trick, she said she felt it in the rotation of her ankle and in the cutting pressure along her Achilles.
Anybody familiar with what that's about? I sort of just found the variation when messing with the position.
cool, that would be awesome! Thank you!
cool, that would be awesome! Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu
I can't imagine a boston crab, or half boston crab situation, happening, lol. That's hilarious and awesome.
chris herzog is the footlock master. he is the one who taught me that finish. he should really be the one to make the video.
I always assumed that straight-ankle locks were relatively safe compared to, say, heel hooks. In all the tourneys I've been to, they're the only leg-locks allowed in beginner divisions, probably because there's less risk of serious injury from a white belt exploding on the submission.
This isn't the most educated opinion, but I think you can adopt a wait-and-see-if-it-actually-hurts approach to straight-ankle locks without putting yourself in unnecessary danger.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu
The biggest issue most people have regarding leg locks is foucsing on the submisison rather than position. The secret of leg locking success is mastering the positions of control and the transitions to those positions of control, the submission will follow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Prigan
Sounds as if they aren't doing it right.
That would be sweet if he did that. also im assuming Masakazu Imanari would have a video somewhere online of how to do it if anyone is interested in looking it up.. he seems to be pretty awesome with anything leg-lock related.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
I'd like to see you teach it on video, I'd really like to see where your at with the transition and positioning. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
Honestly I doubt anyone is doing a proper straight footlock on you. If they were, you would be tapping. A proper footlock should feel as if your foot is being torn or sheered away from your leg at the top of your ankle where your foot meets your shin. It shouldn't feel like simple pressure on your Achilles Tendon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Prigan
Believe it or not, Imanari's DVD doesn't have one straight footlock on there. All the leglocks on there are heel hooks, reverse heel hooks, knee bars, toe holds, and some combinations of those. Sucks too. Id like to see what Imanari has to say about the straight footlock.Quote:
Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu
Quote Originally Posted by Dominic Prigan View Post
When I'm Rolling And Get Put In Am Ankle Lock I Don't Feel It. I Don't Know If I Should Just Tap Early Or If I Should Be Okay With It, I Mean I Don't Want My Ankle To Be Dislocated But I Don't Want To Just Tap For Something I don't Feel. I Need Some Advise On What To Do.
haha, well I was the one applying the last foot lock to Dominique in class yesterday, and I have medium confidence that I probably wasn't doing that one the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
We were in 50/50, his right leg was in my right arm pit(same side)(we don't do heel hooks much for those wondering), and as I recall I was maybe 1/2 on my left side and he was posturing up into me, I let it go and went for a sweep from 50/50. Feel free to critique.
It was decent pressure, but I also wonder how much natural resistance Dominique has to ankle locks if he hasn't ever been tapped by one. I don't have a strong upper body and I also think Dominique is a tough guy to finish ankle locks on.
what say you Foot Loxsperts.
There are a number of small details to the straight ankle lock (and they vary slightly depending on whether you using it as a calf crush, achillies lock or the foot flex) that can be overlooked in the heat of battle. You were likely missing a detail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Valdez
Stephan Kesting has a dvd series out thats very good. Talks about this very topic as well as the differnt positions and control grips etc..cant recall the name of it but it was in two parts and took you from the basics all the way to advanced techniques and the cross over from legs locks to passing and sweeps...good vid seriesQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
you usually dont feel leg locks until its already too late
With heel hooks, yeah, for sure. But I think you're slightly exaggerating. When it comes to footlocks, toeholds, and kneebars, those things hurt with plenty of time to tap if you're smart. The kneebar is a little on the fence. But you should definitely be feeling toeholds and footlocks before something pops.Quote:
Originally Posted by gongbody
Some people are harder to tap in an ankle lock than others. Just as with virtually every move, some people have a natural resistance to it for whatever reason. However, someone who really knows ankle locks will be able to get you tap. The smart thing to do is have someone who does know foot locks well put you in one. Then you see where the pain is supposed to come from. Some people will tell you that a straight ankle lock is just a pain move but don't buy into that. I can break bones with mine, I haven't - but I don't think anyone would dispute that I could.
I had the same experience with ankle locks - and with knee bars - when I was starting out. I have flexible joints, strong tendons, etc.. but I also noticed that I instinctively turn my feet in a way that helps relieve the pressure. That having been said, someone who really knows ankle locks can still catch me - but most people don't. You'll know they have caught you because it hurts!
To me the key to an ankle lock is catching the ankle properly when you begin the move. Let's say your opponent is playing open guard and leaves his right foot dangling within reach. Silly opponent.
1. Encircle the right foot with your right arm but don't attack at a 90 degree angle; use a 45 degree angle that will bring your right hand upwards along the bottom of your rib cage until your fingers are resting mid-sternum, pointing towards your left shoulder. This should leave your opponent's leg on the boniest part of your forearm. The meaty part of your forearm is no good for the ankle locks.
2. Squeeze your elbow to your ribs. This traps the ankle tightly and takes away any wiggle room.
3. 1 and 2 are actually one motion but view it step by step until you have learned it.
4. Foot placement: There's a lot of variance here and really, if I can catch your ankle, I like my chances to tap you no matter where my feet are unless I'm dealing with a foot lock ninja. In that case, you shouldn't be trying a foot lock. Anyhow, I slide my right leg underneath my opponent's right leg at the same time I trap his foot with my arm. The outside of my right foot is ideally placed on my opponent's abdomen to keep him from coming up. My left foot simultaneously darts either to his crotch to prevent my opponent from coming over my leg or behind his right knee. Squeeze your knees together to make it harder for your opponent to escape and to immobilize the leg so that the submission is more effective. This is all one continuous motion.
5. The finish: When you lean back, don't go straight back - lean to your right side and put your head on the mat and twist your right shoulder backwards while expanding your chest to bring your forearm up. Do this slowly because they usually tap before you've gone an inch.
I've a similar issue with knee bars and inside heel hooks. I don't often tap to a knee bar but sometimes I will to acknowledge that the hold was applied. I always tap to heel hooks because I'm paranoid that something will snap even though I'm not feeling it.