psychopaths in mma

so when I was taking psychology we learned about psychopaths. Basically they lack any guilt from doing people harm (physically or psychologically) and completely lack empathy.

they "use charisma, manipulation, intimidation, sexual intercourse and violence to control others and to satisfy their own needs. Are lacking in conscience and empathy, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse. psychopaths have a superficial charm about them, enabled by a willingness to say anything to anyone without concern for accuracy or truth. Genuine emotion tends to be short-lived, glib and egocentric, with an overall cold demeanor. some psychopaths can blend in, undetected, in a variety of surroundings, including corporate environments."

so they are also very good at hiding these qualities and come off as charming.

Some of these qualities seem like they would be helpful in MMA

So... opinions on who might be a psychopath in the UFC, or any fight organization for that matter?

Young Wanderlei, young shogun, tito ortiz, Mark Coleman, Paul Daley, Dan Henderson, Brock Lesnar, Frank Mir (true psychopath), Roushimar Palhares and Bas Rutten come to my mind at this moment.

Everyone is a psychopath, some just suppress it better than others.

only 1 percent of the general population are considered clinical psychopaths.

andy- I don't understand why you would say "young (blank)" because psychopathy is a lifelong disorder. Also, psychopaths don't really experience love the same way as normal people do and I've seen mark coleman show some genuine love to his kids at PRIDE. Wandy and Shogun aren't manipulative in really any way from what I've seen.

Frank Mir is probably the closest you got considering that he doesen't seem to have a conscience as far as hurting his opponents (saw in a bjj interview he said something like "you better tap or I'm breaking your arm") and he really doesn't seem to show any type of fear or genuine emotion. Also in interviews he never seems to be able to describe what a fighter was thinking (lack of empathy) but describes their actions instead.

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Originally Posted by zaya

only 1 percent of the general population are considered clinical psychopaths.

andy- I don't understand why you would say "young (blank)" because psychopathy is a lifelong disorder. Also, psychopaths don't really experience love the same way as normal people do and I've seen mark coleman show some genuine love to his kids at PRIDE. Wandy and Shogun aren't manipulative in really any way from what I've seen.

Frank Mir is probably the closest you got considering that he doesen't seem to have a conscience as far as hurting his opponents (saw in a bjj interview he said something like "you better tap or I'm breaking your arm") and he really doesn't seem to show any type of fear or genuine emotion. Also in interviews he never seems to be able to describe what a fighter was thinking (lack of empathy) but describes their actions instead.

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Oh tnx for giving me partial credit, I'll study the definitions harder for the next exam...

the one that springs to mind for me is rampage jackson. he seems to tick all of the boxes, especially having seen him on TUF twice.

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Originally Posted by AndyK5

Oh tnx for giving me partial credit, I'll study the definitions harder for the next exam...

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LOL.

rampage makes sense. I'm surprised you didn't mention chael sonnen.

chael sonnen doesn't strike me as fitting the bill. don't get me wrong, he seems like damaged goods, but not a psychopath/sociopath. he checks a few of the boxes, but not all (in my opinion). he's shown too much regard for his father, and he seemed effected by evan tanner's death.

I think most fighters have empathy... think about it. Most of them have kids and talk about it, and most of them have great respect or love for someone or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zaya

only 1 percent of the general population are considered clinical psychopaths.

andy- I don't understand why you would say "young (blank)" because psychopathy is a lifelong disorder. Also, psychopaths don't really experience love the same way as normal people do and I've seen mark coleman show some genuine love to his kids at PRIDE. Wandy and Shogun aren't manipulative in really any way from what I've seen.

Frank Mir is probably the closest you got considering that he doesen't seem to have a conscience as far as hurting his opponents (saw in a bjj interview he said something like "you better tap or I'm breaking your arm") and he really doesn't seem to show any type of fear or genuine emotion. Also in interviews he never seems to be able to describe what a fighter was thinking (lack of empathy) but describes their actions instead.

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It seems to me that if this wasn't your logic in a fight, your submission attempts wouldn't be very successful.

No fighter who has made it to a degree you have heard of them is a psychopath. How a person goes about thier business in a ring/cage isnt a reflection of that person's complete personality. If it were, every single soldier who had ever been to war and shot someone, would be a psychopath (using the examples/requirements here). I honestly dont think a psycho could stick with the training, and some of the things required (training is give and take, not just take,take,take) to make technical progress.

Now if you want to talk about folks who hang around the sport, or even douches who pretend to have a background, that is another subject.

If you want to give someone a label just because they want to break a dudes arm or soccer kick them in the head you better check yourself.

http://allpsych.com/disorders/disorders_alpha.html

Everyone's fucking crazy. Just accept it.

Dan 'batshit4stevia' Quinn...

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Originally Posted by Andy Rigg

chael sonnen doesn't strike me as fitting the bill. don't get me wrong, he seems like damaged goods, but not a psychopath/sociopath. he checks a few of the boxes, but not all (in my opinion). he's shown too much regard for his father, and he seemed effected by evan tanner's death.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yszYYry8bNw

he didn't seem too affected in my opinion. This video was after tanners death

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 3rdeye

If you want to give someone a label just because they want to break a dudes arm or soccer kick them in the head you better check yourself.

http://allpsych.com/disorders/disorders_alpha.html

Everyone's fucking crazy. Just accept it.

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I don't think you understand. Psychopathy is not a general label. it's not the same as saying someone is generally "crazy". there are very specific criteria to psychopathy. none of the things on that list are psychopathy.

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Originally Posted by scott philips

dan 'batshit4stevia' quinn...

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bingo

paul daley, nick diaz, brock lesnar, ken shamrock, frank mir, fedor emelianenko come to mind hmmm all welterweights and heavyweights

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Originally Posted by zaya

I don't think you understand. Psychopathy is not a general label. it's not the same as saying someone is generally "crazy". there are very specific criteria to psychopathy. none of the things on that list are psychopathy.

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naw brah. I get the Psychology behind the label. My issues is the label. My point was if you look hard enough everyone fits "very specific criteria".

to all:

check it out heres the clinical checklist

1 Glib and Superficial Charm The tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example.

2 Grandiose Self-Worth A grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.

3 Need for Stimulation or
Proneness to Boredom An excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.

4 Pathological Lying Can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.

5 Cunning and Manipulativeness The use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, as reflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one's victims.

6 Lack of Remorse or Guilt A lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and unempathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.

7 Shallow Affect Emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.

8 Callousness and
Lack of Empathy A lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.

9 Parasitic Lifestyle An intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.

10 Poor Behavioral Controls Expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.

11 Promiscuous Sexual Behavior A variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.

12 Early Behavior Problems A variety of behaviors prior to age 13, including lying, theft, cheating, vandalism, bullying, sexual activity, fire-setting, glue-sniffing, alcohol use, and running away from home.

13 Lack of Realistic,
Long-Term Goals an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life.

14 Impulsivity The occurrence of behaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning; inability to resist temptation, frustrations, and urges; a lack of deliberation without considering the consequences; foolhardy, rash, unpredictable, erratic, and reckless.

15 Irresponsibility Repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.

16 Failure to Accept Responsibility
for Own Actions A failure to accept responsibility for one's actions reflected in low conscientiousness, an absence of dutifulness, antagonistic manipulation, denial of responsibility, and an effort to manipulate others through this denial.

17 Many Short-Term Marital Relationships A lack of commitment to a long-term relationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.

18 Juvenile Delinquency Behavior problems between the ages of 13-18; mostly behaviors that are crimes or clearly involve aspects of antagonism, exploitation, aggression, manipulation, or a callous, ruthless tough-mindedness.

19 Revocation of Condition Release A revocation of probation or other conditional release due to technical violations, such as carelessness, low deliberation, or failing to appear.

20 Criminal Versatility A diversity of types of criminal offenses, regardless if the person has been arrested or convicted for them; taking great pride at getting away with crimes.