Crazy
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Well this is certainly depressing!!!
Fucking hell did they really know about the fault lines but built the reactors there anyway? If true there are a number of conclusions you can draw from that. Fuck I've gotta take my healthy living to yet another level just to attempt to fucking survive this nuclear fallout if everything this woman says is true.
This is all garbage u honestly think anybody in the us will even get effected? We get more radiation from out refridgerators, and xrays.
She is considered an authority on the subject, but if you think its garbage, I have no real desire to change your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Elton
In terms of logic, I'd like to know what you are basing your assertion on. Clearly she has little to gain by letting us know what is really at stake and she isn't going to get any love in the process. If anything she is putting herself up against massive potential scrutiny among other dangers to tell us the truth.
Also, in terms of data, the science seems to back her up.
Here is an interesting article from her website.
"Soon after the Fukushima accident last month, I stated publicly that a nuclear event of this size and catastrophic potential could present a medical problem of very large dimensions.
Events have proven this observation to be true despite the nuclear industry’s campaign about the “minimal” health effects of so-called low-level radiation.
That billions of its dollars are at stake if the Fukushima event causes the “nuclear renaissance” to slow down appears to be evident from the industry’s attacks on its critics, even in the face of an unresolved and escalating disaster at the reactor complex at Fukushima.
Proponents of nuclear power – including George Monbiot, who has had a mysterious road-to-Damascus conversion to its supposedly benign effects – accuse me and others who call attention to the potential serious medical consequences of the accident of “cherry-picking” data and overstating the health effects of radiation from the radioactive fuel in the destroyed reactors and their cooling pools.
Yet by reassuring the public that things aren’t too bad, Monbiot and others at best misinform, and at worst misrepresent or distort, the scientific evidence of the harmful effects of radiation exposure – and they play a predictable shoot-the-messenger game in the process.
To wit:
1) Mr Monbiot, who is a journalist not a scientist, appears unaware of the difference between external and internal radiation
Let me educate him.
The former is what populations were exposed to when the atomic bombs were detonated over Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945; their profound and on-going medical effects are well documented. [1]
Internal radiation, on the other hand, emanates from radioactive elements which enter the body by inhalation, ingestion, or skin absorption. Hazardous radionuclides such as iodine-131, caesium 137, and other isotopes currently being released in the sea and air around Fukushima bio-concentrate at each step of various food chains (for example into algae, crustaceans, small fish, bigger fish, then humans; or soil, grass, cow’s meat and milk, then humans). [2] After they enter the body, these elements – called internal emitters – migrate to specific organs such as the thyroid, liver, bone, and brain, where they continuously irradiate small volumes of cells with high doses of alpha, beta and/or gamma radiation, and over many years, can induce uncontrolled cell replication – that is, cancer. Further, many of the nuclides remain radioactive in the environment for generations, and ultimately will cause increased incidences of cancer and genetic diseases over time.
The grave effects of internal emitters are of the most profound concern at Fukushima. It is inaccurate and misleading to use the term “acceptable levels of external radiation” in assessing internal radiation exposures. To do so, as Monbiot has done, is to propagate inaccuracies and to mislead the public worldwide (not to mention other journalists) who are seeking the truth about radiation’s hazards.
2) Nuclear industry proponents often assert that low doses of radiation (eg below 100mSV) produce no ill effects and are therefore safe. But , as the US National Academy of Sciences BEIR VII report has concluded, no dose of radiation is safe, however small, including background radiation; exposure is cumulative and adds to an individual’s risk of developing cancer.
3) Now let’s turn to Chernobyl. Various seemingly reputable groups have issued differing reports on the morbidity and mortalities resulting from the 1986 radiation catastrophe. The World Health Organisation (WHO) in 2005 issued a report attributing only 43 human deaths directly to the Chernobyl disaster and estimating an additional 4,000 fatal cancers. In contrast, the 2009 report, “Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment”, published by the New York Academy of Sciences, comes to a very different conclusion. The three scientist authors – Alexey V Yablokov, Vassily B. Nesterenko, and Alexey V Nesterenko – provide in its pages a translated synthesis and compilation of hundreds of scientific articles on the effects of the Chernobyl disaster that have appeared in Slavic language publications over the past 20 years. They estimate the number of deaths attributable to the Chernobyl meltdown at about 980,000.
Monbiot dismisses the report as worthless, but to do so – to ignore and denigrate an entire body of literature, collectively hundreds of studies that provide evidence of large and significant impacts on human health and the environment – is arrogant and irresponsible. Scientists can and should argue over such things, for example, as confidence intervals around individual estimates (which signal the reliability of estimates), but to consign out of hand the entire report into a metaphorical dustbin is shameful.
Further, as Prof Dimitro Godzinsky, of the Ukranian National Academy of Sciences, states in his introduction to the report: “Against this background of such persuasive data some defenders of atomic energy look specious as they deny the obvious negative effects of radiation upon populations. In fact, their reactions include almost complete refusal to fund medical and biological studies, even liquidating government bodies that were in charge of the ‘affairs of Chernobyl’. Under pressure from the nuclear lobby, officials have also diverted scientific personnel away from studying the problems caused by Chernobyl.”
4) Monbiot expresses surprise that a UN-affiliated body such as WHOmight be under the influence of the nuclear power industry, causing its reporting on nuclear power matters to be biased. And yet that is precisely the case.
In the early days of nuclear power, WHO issued forthright statements on radiation risks such as its 1956 warning: “Genetic heritage is the most precious property for human beings. It determines the lives of our progeny, health and harmonious development of future generations. As experts, we affirm that the health of future generations is threatened by increasing development of the atomic industry and sources of radiation … We also believe that new mutations that occur in humans are harmful to them and their offspring.”
After 1959, WHO made no more statements on health and radioactivity. What happened? On 28 May 1959, at the 12th World Health Assembly, WHO drew up an agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA); clause 12.40 of this agreement says: “Whenever either organisation [the WHO or the IAEA] proposes to initiate a programme or activity on a subject in which the other organisation has or may have a substantial interest, the first party shall consult the other with a view to adjusting the matter by mutual agreement.” In other words, the WHO grants the right of prior approval over any research it might undertake or report on to the IAEA – a group that many people, including journalists, think is a neutral watchdog, but which is, in fact, an advocate for the nuclear power industry. The IAEA’s founding papers state: “The agency shall seek to accelerate and enlarge the contribution of atomic energy to peace, health and prosperity through the world.”
Monbiot appears ignorant about the WHO’s subjugation to the IAEA, yet this is widely known within the scientific radiation community. But it is clearly not the only matter on which he is ignorant after his apparent three-day perusal of the vast body of scientific information on radiation and radioactivity. As we have seen, he and other nuclear industry apologists sow confusion about radiation risks, and, in my view, in much the same way that the tobacco industry did in previous decades about the risks of smoking. Despite their claims, it is they, not the “anti-nuclear movement” who are “misleading the world about the impacts of radiation on human health.”
• Helen Caldicott is president of the Helen Caldicott Foundation for a Nuclear-Free Planet and the author of Nuclear Power is Not the Answer
[1] See, for example, WJ Schull, Effects of Atomic Radiation: A Half-Century of Studies from Hiroshima and Nagasaki (New York: Wiley-Lis, 1995) and DE Thompson, K Mabuchi, E Ron, M Soda, M Tokunaga, S Ochikubo, S Sugimoto, T Ikeda, M Terasaki, S Izumi et al. “Cancer incidence in atomic bomb survivors, Part I: Solid tumors, 1958-1987″ in Radiat Res 137:S17-S67 (1994).
[2] This process is called bioaccumulation and comes in two subtypes as well, bioconcentration and biomagnification. For more information see: J.U. Clark and V.A. McFarland, Assessing Bioaccumulation in Aquatic Organisms Exposed to Contaminated Sediments, Miscellaneous Paper D-91-2 (1991), Environmental Laboratory, Waterways Experiment Station, Vicksburg, MS and H.A. Vanderplog, D.C. Parzyck, W.H. Wilcox, J.R. Kercher, and S.V. Kaye, Bioaccumulation Factors for Radionuclides in Freshwater Biota, ORNL-5002 (1975), Environmental Sciences Division Publication, Number 783, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Oak Ridge, TN."
im not being rude or anything im just saying they reported and tested everybody around the facility when it happened and they werent even close to attaining acute radiation poisoning (puking, fever, what not) and are still testing them daily. It will eventually evaporate over the ocean ( i hope) and will not reach where i live which is like 2 hours from san diego
take care though
No sweat Brent. I didn't feel you were being disrespectful, I was just talking with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Elton
I honestly don't believe the majority of mainstream reports, as they are changing constantly and are different each time depending on who is reporting and what they have at stake.
Also, the latest news is that the Japanese government's nuclear safety agency has decided to raise the crisis level of the Fukushima Daiichi power plant accident from 5 to 7, the worst on the international scale.
The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency made the decision on Monday. It says the damaged facilities have been releasing a massive amount of radioactive substances, which are posing a threat to human health and the environment over a wide area.
The agency used the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale, or INES, to gauge the level. The scale was designed by an international group of experts to indicate the significance of nuclear events with ratings of 0 to 7.
ya i get what you mean, the government lies to us all the time, they dont care if we die or not, and thats why we cant trust any other country that doenst have common sense
they should have reinforced the walls and floors
I hope to mother nature this woman is 100% wrong, but if she's right and we're radioactively @#cked worldwide, BAM...radioactive virus that leads to zombie apocalypse. I'm glad our clan has a semblance of a survival plan for extreme worldwide catastrophe. =D. On a serious note, I really feel for the Japanese. Such wonderful engineers and martial artists they have produced, along with their gifts of Japanese cuisine and anime.
maybe the radiation will only make us stronger!!!
birth of super powers?
One thing I can say fellas is we definatly aren't gonna make it out of this life alive. I think the sooner we realise that and embrace it we will live fuller lives while we have the chance. But that's just me trying to put a positive spin on things.
So what you're saying is, go out with a bang =D.Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan orchard
This isn't the kind of thing you see the effects of right away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Elton
Thanks for posting the video Jason.
Dangerous, of course. World wide concern, eh. I wouldn't be overly thrilled about eating much from the surrounding area, but in terms of release compared to chernobyl we aren't even in the same realm. When Chernobyl melted down residence of Pripyat stood near by watching the colorful fire of he graphite fuel rods burn, with in the following 12 hours all the residence standing on the bridge where dead from exposure. Pripyats death bridge was just the start, thousands more would die with in the following days attempting to seal off the reactors. I believe a 30Km area surrounding it is now considered uninhabitable and will be for the next thousand or so years, Japans core didnt release 1/10th of the pollution that came from chernobyl, how do I know this ? I work in the power industry and went to school for nuclear power operations. As sad as the disaster is, I forsee great technology coming form this disaster in the form of radiation clean up advancements. If you want the facts pay attention to the IAEA, they're a commuinity of national scientist not a conglomeration of government voice.
I don't get it...Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan orchard
This is intense stuff though, Book of Eli/Mad Max is looking realistic!!
what im sayin is when i first saw the video it kinda put me in a shitty place mentally but after thinking about it for a while i realized i dont want to go through my day to day life afraid of dying from radiation espesially when i can get in my car and die on the way to the store. so im not gonna trip on it cause eventually one way or another its gonna be over so ill just live life to the fullest and not live in fear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dewitt Jr
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by jonscottnd
Good post, bro! I was a hazardous materials technician for a few years before I bailed on that cancer causing career, but what she's saying sounds alot more on par with what I learned about these situations in my training then what the government and media are telling us now.
I'm not going to lie and say I watched the whole video.. bailed 2-3 min in after skipping around a bit.. but I just want to say that some of yall should be more skeptical of the things you hear or read.. don't just blindly assume its correct(the scientific method is a good practice for daily life). Without going through a wall of text I think that should suffice.
Basically at a minimum I'd need way more then this to even think this woman was correct.. as she is going completely against the consensus.
edit:
Considered an authority by who? What is the subject?!? Doomsdayology?!? does glenn beck supply the degrees?(joking aside I am curious). Also she has a lot to gain potentially ... she gains exposure/attention.. she may get funding for her research if she actually does some?!? And of course she sells her book if she has any. Massive scrutiny doesn't prevent the flow of cash money when appealing to a certain group of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Eisner
What other dangers?!? evil scientist assassins? :P
This does make me more curious to watch the video fully but it will have to wait until tonight also do you have any links to the "data" you're referencing?
also this is not intended as an attack... just chit chat.
Edit 2: Just went to her website and that was pretty much an instant /facepalm... she has like 8 different books.. Definitely has a financial interest based on the bio on her own website lol.. also shes a "physician".. so a doctor.. and a practicing doctor as well 40ish years ago.. but man last time I checked that did not make a person an authority on anything in regards to nuclear energy etc.. other then if you gave me this much radiation it will effect the body is this manner. Her source of income as it appears today comes from her books and from public speaking.
Basically I'm incredibly skeptical.. that came from 5 minutes of searching so it could obviously be flawed.. maybe but thought I'd add it.
I always thought that we live in a sea of radiation anyway - the sun beats down on us with UV radiation everyday, admittedly small beans compared to x and gamma ray radiation from a nuclear reactor core, but still enough to cause damage to our DNA. Sometimes this leads to mutations, sometimes cancer, sometimes evolution!Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan orchard
Wow yeah I figured this was the way it would go.. better make use of our time while we have it.. and enjoy the beautiful earth!! while beauty lasts.
"I just want to say that some of yall should be more skeptical of the things you hear or read.. don't just blindly assume its correct(the scientific method is a good practice for daily life)."Quote:
Originally Posted by Pourya S
You can be skeptical. That is often a worthy attribute, but I can't give you any real credence here.
Why?
Because although you left some interesting and potentially good questions, I'm not going to debate the subject with you until you actually take the time to watch the video. Especially since the video itself contains some of your answers.
The positive publicity she has garnished for her honesty is far outweighed by the scrutiny she has received by the international community.
I don't know how many people you think are buying books on depleted uranium munitions, nuclear weapons, and nuclear weapons proliferation, but I promise you that she ain't no Jonathan Safran Foer.
Take a second to weigh the alternative to your skepticism.
A woman makes a stink about the international nuclear situation, based on what is currently happening in Japan...to get...as you suggested, "funding for her research" and to "sell her books," to maybe a few thousand scholars and scientists.
Or...
if she is correct, the entire international community would have to admit that the billions of dollars they have spent in the search for nuclear power, and the creation of nuclear weapons was a HUGE mistake and admit to the fact that they have no way to ever get rid of what the mess they have created.
who closed this thread?