Any way that I can stop people from standing up out of Newyork and NewYork Bagger?

I'm having trouble with some guys standing straight up out of my New York bagger. I know it is not my leg curl strength because when they pick me up im chest to chest and still am hugging the knee. What it is is just that I don't weigh much (around 150-165 depending on the weather) and some of our guys just have strong backs or something I guess. But it is irritating cuz that makes rubber guard and closed guard in general useless. Now normally when a dude stands up i just open my guard, or try to sweep is legs but shit when Im in New York bagger Im playing rubber guard and wouldn't expect someone to do that, but there are a few that do. Anyhow anyway i can stop this?

Sounds like you're rolling with some big dudes. If they're anywhere near your weight, it's going to take an extreme amount of energy to lift you from the ground. so don't sweat it. A lot of people have trouble grasping jiujitsuosophy... A power move like picking up someone from the ground is not jiu jitsu. Jiu jitsu is a "soft" martial art in that techniques should be applied with little to no muscle or power behind them and still be effective. such a display of power is NOT jiu jitsu and it's actually disrespectful to do so in a live roll being that you're both trying to practice your jiu jitsu. a guy your size would not even think to do something like that because he'd know how much energy that would be wasting and how futile it would be to attempt something like that in competition.
I enjoy rolling with much larger people because i feel like it's a huge work out... but most bigger guys don't understand jiujitsuosophy and they're going to be using their strength advantage the whole time. good training for me because i get to test my techniques vs an opponent who is depending on their strength to be able to escape, but not so much for them... as they're not perfecting their techniques or learning anything new... all they're doing is basically weight-training with me as their weight.

I find rubber guard very effective on people who don't have a significant strength advantage but for those that do, i find myself working the butterflies or working for a scissor-sweep... but most of the time i get powered through and i end up with my total body weight pressing down on my chest from side-control.

Actually the guys that stand up are the same weight class as me. Around 155-160. Of course they are pro mma fighters and purple belts also. but still.

easy!
dont go rubberguard
HAR HAR HAR

I was working thru that dilemma with a light weight student the other week actually, we ended up transitioning to an open guard scissor sweep in response to the posture since they're shifting their weight dramatically in one direction and that always invites a sweep ;)

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Originally Posted by maiajuijitsu

easy!
dont go rubberguard
HAR HAR HAR

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hardy har har har mate! But you know i figure if i can get to new york a lot i can get to perpendicular jiu claw alot. and i have vs one of them but the other guy damn. he shuts down closed guard for shure. He can pick me straight up with retarded crackhead control. he is smooth as michael jackson's dance moves yo. but they don't slam me. they are good mannered and i dont consider standing up out of a mans guard a bad mannered move. im just to weak to do it lol. i guess the big differences is they have trained for 6 years and i have for only a year and 5 months. but still there has to be a technical way of playing rubber guard on such folks. i guess nothing works on everything . i remeber eddie saying his rubber guard didnt work so well on ari bolden but he worked his half guard instead. lol my half guard sucks against them too. just gotta keep repping i guess.

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Originally Posted by Compella

I was working thru that dilemma with a light weight student the other week actually, we ended up transitioning to an open guard scissor sweep in response to the posture since they're shifting their weight dramatically in one direction and that always invites a sweep ;)

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im glad to see someone so advanced has some same problems as a weak guy like me. hey tho actually in the process of them standing up i am going to let go, fall on my back hard, and pull their legs while pushing my hips against them and try to get them swept. if not i'll work my open guard. so many things to think about when you haven't trained for 100 years :)

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Originally Posted by Don Blankenship

reps

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do reps, once you get RG and go to NY (question, when u get to NY are you HUGGING YOUR KNEE with your free arm/squeezing your knees? if your doing the knees+kneehug with arm they shouldnt be moving out of your RG) once u get to NY you gotta switch to other moves NY right to ZOMBIE (if they aint t-rex'ing) clear the neck to INVISIBLE COLLAR from here you SHOULD have total control of them but you gotta get to this position in 30 seconds or else your gettin smashed

you could do other moves to setup your RG, throw them off cause they know your goin to it, so you gotta switch it up on them, think one thing and do the opposite

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Originally Posted by maiajuijitsu

do reps, once you get RG and go to NY (question, when u get to NY are you HUGGING YOUR KNEE with your free arm/squeezing your knees? if your doing the knees+kneehug with arm they shouldnt be moving out of your RG) once u get to NY you gotta switch to other moves NY right to ZOMBIE (if they aint t-rex'ing) clear the neck to INVISIBLE COLLAR from here you SHOULD have total control of them but you gotta get to this position in 30 seconds or else your gettin smashed

you could do other moves to setup your RG, throw them off cause they know your goin to it, so you gotta switch it up on them, think one thing and do the opposite

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uhhhhhh newyork to zombie????? u say this. but new york is already with a zombie. makes me wonder if you know anything about coloring books. anyhow. i double bag and hug and squeeze my knee as hard as i can. i have a good blue belt level rubber guard. i know what a solar system looks like when its time to hug a knee. but you say total control? im telling you my friend they stand up straight out of it. chest to chest and double bagging :(. sorry mane. not just 30 seconds . 5 seconds and they stand up.

Where you at herzog, eddie, scott, brandon mc, bobby, superman, brandon palmer, any of you others that lover the rubber guard.

Yeah, your rubberguard is pretty good. I'm having the same problem on one or two folks. Mainly purple belt level people as well. Mainly when I've got the hand zombied and passing the head to IC on one good person in particular. I know i need to be double bagging but this guys shoulders are SOO frikkkin broad. Also had them in full on IC and when I tried to transition to omoplata they just stood right up. It was like my 7th roll in nogi with a broken ac so lets just say it was borderline slip in slide but I gotta be ready for the slip in slide inside the cage so no excuses. With really good people, i've found I cannot rush the process in the slightest bit whereas against noobs I can really force things to happen. On a side note I've been hittin hazletts all over the place lately, especially in the gi. And Maiajujitsu, with your superior knowledge in "jujitsu" I think blue maybe selling yourself a little short. I'd go atleast purple or brown if I were you.

And I definitely don't consider myself an authority figure on the subject

But I did stay at a nite fall inn

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Originally Posted by Scott Philips

But I did stay at a nite fall inn

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lmao ............hey man i had fun and i def consider your opinions greatly .. you seem to play the same game as me. other than you like foot on hip where i like double bagger. i guess theres nothing a man can do against a higher skilled guy. Thats jiu jitsu. im still waiting on someone to promote me to blue. i know im at least a low blue. i crushed some blues with my rubber guard a while back. i got crushed yesterday night by those purples but shit they are pro and maybe i was having a bad night. is it becuz i do to much gi? becuz i do great gi against them. it slows things down allows me to think. however when i did no gi they were so sweaty they just slipped by my guard and i jailbreak to rubber guard BOOM stand up shake my weak ass off. Damn it the only things that give me happiness is sweet tea and fried chicken right now. i wish i could be down there with you scott and bobby but i cant. life is depressing in that matter knowing that i got that tenth planet blood in me but im trained in the way thats against it sorta. but they dont mind i mean. but it still aint like we talked. we can relate to alot of shit in jiu jitsu. damn. oh well. maybe one day we will be great and talk about how we innovated great things huh? lol maybe :)

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Originally Posted by prowess

Sounds like you're rolling with some big dudes. If they're anywhere near your weight, it's going to take an extreme amount of energy to lift you from the ground. so don't sweat it. A lot of people have trouble grasping jiujitsuosophy... A power move like picking up someone from the ground is not jiu jitsu. Jiu jitsu is a "soft" martial art in that techniques should be applied with little to no muscle or power behind them and still be effective. such a display of power is NOT jiu jitsu and it's actually disrespectful to do so in a live roll being that you're both trying to practice your jiu jitsu. a guy your size would not even think to do something like that because he'd know how much energy that would be wasting and how futile it would be to attempt something like that in competition.

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I have to disagree. There are many technical standing guard breaks/passes and they don't require a gross display of strength. Ironically, you stand up in someone's guard in order to use gravity, not muscle, to help to pull your opponent down, eventually breaking his guard and setting up the pass. There is nothing disrespectful about these techniques and I respect somebody who can pick me up with a stable enough base not to fall over while I'm trying to attack and counter.

Now if somebody wants to pick you up just to slam you.. well that's something entirely different. However, your defenses against a standing opponent should be dialed in anyways, regardless of their intentions.

Shimmyin back to a well timed limp, standin up and sytematilly shakin him down and exploding at the right time are all hard to deal with when hes game.
Compella nailed it though, try it. Timings gonna be key.

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Originally Posted by Compella

I was working thru that dilemma with a light weight student the other week actually, we ended up transitioning to an open guard scissor sweep in response to the posture since they're shifting their weight dramatically in one direction and that always invites a sweep ;)

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Originally Posted by AJ Camacho

I have to disagree. There are many technical standing guard breaks/passes and they don't require a gross display of strength. Ironically, you stand up in someone's guard in order to use gravity, not muscle, to help to pull your opponent down, eventually breaking his guard and setting up the pass. There is nothing disrespectful about these techniques and I respect somebody who can pick me up with a stable enough base not to fall over while I'm trying to attack and counter.

Now if somebody wants to pick you up just to slam you.. well that's something entirely different. However, your defenses against a standing opponent should be dialed in anyways, regardless of their intentions.

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+1

Let them pick you up, release your guard, then ankle pick them and take them down lol. I had similar issues from crackhead control. So I just got better at my takedowns. It made them pick their poison.

probably not the best advice, and definitely horrible advice for mma, but inside of a jiu jitsu competition where slams are illegal I just hold on, and let them carry me. I have a comp where the guy stood up and i attempted a mid air croc, video is on here somewhere. even though its against the rules you still might get slammed.

that or when they try to lift you up, hip out more, or put your foot back on the hip, mess with his balance as he is about to lift and he won't really have the base to stand up.

and last move, a teamate hit this in a comp. just let go of guard and hit a double leg, odds are they won't be expecting it and you've already closed the distance. that video is also on here somewhere

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Originally Posted by Don Blankenship

Thats jiu jitsu. im still waiting on someone to promote me to blue.

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i'll promote you... it will be the first time (that i know of) a white belt has ever promoted someone to blue belt:o

Grab their leg when they are picking you up. They won't be able to fully pick you up and after trying to pick you up 2 or 3 times they'll get back down

Agreed with Alighieri and Compella!

I also have used crowbar right before they stand and I sit into it deeply and then scram from Jiiu claw for a sweep or after they feel the crowbar they usually sit back down because of the terrible angle it creates against their neck, then grab the leg to avoid them trying again. Its worked for me and it kind of opens them up for all sorts of evil, like sweeps and other attacks from there. Rubberguard does not always work all of the time. Sometimes you just have to know when to let it go and open the game a little as by doing this,other opportunities present themselves.

hook the ankle with the arm you have hugging the knee. from there you should be able to clear the head, he's not really in a position to stop it. if he's stacking you sweep em over

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Originally Posted by Joe Friday

i'll promote you... it will be the first time (that i know of) a white belt has ever promoted someone to blue belt:o

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ill get it whenever the time is right i guess. and the time may not be ready for a few more years if i keep sucking lol. Joe have you ever ate at Joe's? It's real nice has a couch with a bowl of bacon on a table.



I guess rubber guard just doesnt work on everyone. thanks for all the advice guys :)

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Originally Posted by Don Blankenship

ill get it whenever the time is right i guess. and the time may not be ready for a few more years if i keep sucking lol. Joe have you ever ate at Joe's? It's real nice has a couch with a bowl of bacon on a table.



I guess rubber guard just doesnt work on everyone. thanks for all the advice guys :)

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don't of it like that, you're just not using it like you should. if rubber guard isn't working for some reason, he's giving you something else. there's no full proof defense of rubber guard that doesn't open him up. otherwise we'd know it by now.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Carey

don't of it like that, you're just not using it like you should. if rubber guard isn't working for some reason, he's giving you something else. there's no full proof defense of rubber guard that doesn't open him up. otherwise we'd know it by now.

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only thing i can think of when a guy stands up is to let go and try to sweep his legs or start working open guard.

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Originally Posted by Compella

I was working thru that dilemma with a light weight student the other week actually, we ended up transitioning to an open guard scissor sweep in response to the posture since they're shifting their weight dramatically in one direction and that always invites a sweep ;)

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what if they start on one knee with the other foot flat on the floor and put the foot that's off the floor out to the side, then twist their body to stand up straight without shifting their weight.