Training with Regular Partners vs Migrating

Sorry in advance for this long post. It's something I have been musing over in my head for a while, and I think some people may have interesting thoughts.

I've been thinking recently about training BJJ with the same people every day, versus training at different places with different approaches. If you have seen the recent finals matches between the 2 Mendes brothers or between Jeff Glover and Bill Cooper, they look completely different from most competition BJJ. Obviously they are fighting at about 30%, but it is more than that. These guys have been training together for years, and they know the ins and outs of each others games.

When I train a my gym, everyone knows what I am best at and how I move. I have to constantly adapt, learn new things, and adjust, or I will be left behind by more innovative fighters. This is awesome, because my game develops, and I am not allowed to just rely on my go-to moves. On the other hand, I work a great, useful move into the ground, and then once everyone knows it, I often leave it behind because it does not work anymore in the gym. My main concern is, in the hopes of evolving my game, am I literally picking out all of my best moves and eliminating them? If I have an awesome omaplata, I should be practicing the details and nuances to hit them even more against tougher guys (think Ryan Hall drilling the triangle for years). But at this point, everyone sees it coming, so I only go for it with complicated, tricky setups. My guess is that I haven't thrown any of the basic setups for it in months.

Because of my job, I get to travel to the east coast every month for a week. When I do, I train at the best gyms in the area (so far this year, I have gotten to train with Ryan Hall, Marcelo Garcia, Paul Schriener, Demian Maia, Zak Maxwell, and many others). What is interesting is that, when I go somewhere else, I start to slowly go back to my old moves. Nobody knows my setups, so I can snap up an attack that my teammates would laugh at as they pass my guard. I obviously don't want to be a one trick pony, but it is also kind of nice to be able to go back to my favorites like that. Even more, that is probably a more accurate simulation of what I will face in tournaments, rather than somebody that I drill with every day.

So, what do you all think? For now, I try to mix it up, training 3 weeks at home, and then 1 on the road. But that is not feasible for most people, and probably won't be for me forever either. So what is more important? What is more productive? What do you enjoy more?

One of my old instructors, Kenny Bond, wrote a great article about his reasons for competing. One of the interesting reasons was that it's how you develop a personal style. That it's against random people where you learn what your real go to moves are and where you should further develop your game.

http://www.dstryrsg.com/2011/07/best...-by-kenny.html

@AJ Thanks man, that's a nice article. I completely agree with every point he makes. So, are you saying you would train with the same guys, but use tourneys to get the benefits of outside opponents?

Harry, I'm just a white belt, but it just makes sense to me to train with both types of people. The people who you train with who "know your game" also have the same handicap because you "know their game" as well. You could use that to adapt your game and inadvertently help them adapt theirs. The people you don't train with often are a total unknown factor *ie tournaments, alternate gyms, etc* and that adds more of a random dynamic stylistically which can help round you out even more since someone may come at you at new angle of attack that you're not used to.

Thx Kiko. I'm not sure exactly what kind of response I was looking for, other than general opinions and whether people overall prefer one or the other. But I think the most obvious answer is, "do both." I wonder what the best ratio is, though?

I think if I could do what you do, I would in a second. My instructor said the one big thing that helped him get much better than the other guys he trained with was going to open mats at other schools, and his main reason was that these people have something to prove to you as an outsider at their school, and that like you said you roll with a variety of people who don't know your game. He said it's the closest you can get to what you'd face in a tournament. I think this is an awesome thread you started and I have been thinking about this a lot too recently. I think an issue you can run into if you're learning from multiple instructors though is that it could be detrimental to your relationship to your instructor and your coach. For example, you may be being taught moves different ways or may be learning techniques that your instructor wouldn't have show you for a variety of reasons, and if you're competing they won't be able to coach you as effectively and as a teacher may not be able to instill their personal cirriculum to you in the most effective manner. I've personally struggled with this a lot. I train a lot, and I started to outgrow the other training partners at my school entirely due to me putting more time continually than anyone else. I eventually found my way to doing a few day classes in the city at another school in addition to my home school classes, so I could be training more. It has caused some issues and I do worry if learning from two very different instructors isn't the best idea, but I love training and the two extra classes a week really feel like they help. I'd eventually like to find a better fit, and have even thought of training at HQ over a summer, but I battle with these same issues and more that you're brought up. Thanks for the post!

This isn't exactly what you asked, but I hope it helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNjgcKQI-rc

I could see both situations heping your game really. If your team mates are shutting down your game and youre still trying to master your moves then that specific move will keep getting its reps till you get it to black belt level and nobody can stop it. I'm sure marcello garcia's RNC didn't get to the level its at cause no one knew his game. Then on the otherside you're able to see what will work on someone that doesn't know your game by visiting other schools and competing. So I guess keep doing the moves that are working for you. Your team mate counters yu recouner. Then when you visit other schools you'll get different reactions and can build your gamefrom there.
I duno if that answers your question. Just keep training!

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Originally Posted by Harry Evans

I wonder what the best ratio is, though?

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That answer is easy. Give a higher % ratio, at your discretion, to the one you're enjoying more that week. You enjoying the process should be top priority, otherwise it'll get stagnant, and stagnation leads down the path to quitting.

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Originally Posted by Enrique "Kiko"

That answer is easy. Give a higher % ratio, at your discretion, to the one you're enjoying more that week. You enjoying the process should be top priority, otherwise it'll get stagnant, and stagnation leads down the path to quitting.

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Great point. Having fun is what it's all about.

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Originally Posted by Harry Evans

Thx Kiko. I'm not sure exactly what kind of response I was looking for, other than general opinions and whether people overall prefer one or the other. But I think the most obvious answer is, "do both." I wonder what the best ratio is, though?

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There's way too many factors to take into consideration to answer that. Are you looking to be a better competitor in terms of tournaments? How much are you being challenged at your school? How much at these other places? Are the guys you face home and away close to your competition weight? Are you getting instruction at these other schools or just doing open mats? How much personal attention are you getting at your school? Are you going to different schools when away or the same ones? Where do you enjoy training more? How does inproving your conditioning factor into this? Those are just the ones off the top of my head.

@Landon I have found as well that people go harder when you visit to prove something. It's kinda nice to practice like that, you are right, because it's more similar to a tourney. On the other hand, I also agree that it is really nice to build a relationship with an instructor. Let them watch you fight everybody all the time and break down your game, in a way that nobody in the world could possibly do in a single day.

One thing, though. It sounds like your school is not adequate to your needs. Please do not take that as me being a prick - I do not mean to insult anybody. I just mean that there are two problems. First, there is always turnover in students, but there should always be a core group of people who train hard and really care. It sounds like that group is you, and you alone. Second, you are a white belt, but you are outgrowing your entire school? There should be a progression of student levels in your gym. A whole range of white belts, a whole range of blue belts from new blue to about to earn purple, etc. You should be able to just move up to tougher partners, as you slowly notice that they are not dominating you anymore as much. If that is not the case, you should look around. Boston has a lot of MMA and BJJ gyms. Good luck!

@Harry

Thanks, no offense taken. I appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts.

We only do MMA and nogi at my school, we do no belts. I've been training for 3.5 years. I just won advanced @ 169.9 lbs at NAGA in Springfield, MA. I am aware of the problems you addressed, and I've been working on trying to figure it out. We've only been open at our new location for 2 years. We have some great guys, I've just progressed a bit further than them. My biggest issue is I'm very close with my instructor and he has nearly 15 years experience. He has so much teaching to offer me, and is an amazing instructor. I train at a school in Boston 2x per week, which has been a good improvement for me. I'm working on a balance, and with me going back to school in the fall, I'll be living in Boston and I will be finding a new balance then. There's many factors that I take into consideration to where I want to train, and limits I have based on location, availability, what's offered, etc.

I have to say, the other schools I have seen have mostly been great, and the classes and open mats have been a ton of fun. But I am spoiled, because I honestly think after all of those places that my gym is the best I have ever seen, so I probably get the most from training at home with my team. As much as we tone down our aggression in training, everyone's technique is so good that often it seems like the easiest fights are either at other gyms or in tournaments. It's just really nice to be able to go pick up a new move, or a different way to look at angles every once in awhile. I always wonder, though, whether it would be better (assume I hit the lottery) to hop around and train at different schools for awhile, or train my ass off at home and travel every here and there.

@Landon Interesting, that actually sounds better than I imagined. Once you get to Boston, I'm sure there will be a good BJJ school nearby. I know I'm forgetting a good one, but off the top of my head, there is Kenny Florian's place, Gracie Barra (my school's rival, but I have to admit a great school), and a few others. Not sure where the nearest TPJJ location is.

If I could I think I'd hop around to different schools, but I'm sure eventually I'd miss my home school and the guys there. I think training regularly under one instructor and every once in a while hopping around might be what's best to do, but maybe not the most fun sounding or in practice either, but the grass is always greener. If I was to hop around, I'd want to spend at least a month or two at a place so I could start to get a feel for it before moving on. The situation you've got now where you can train other places frequently sounds awesome, and I'm enveous of it.

The nearest 10p is Hartford. There's a few good places, but my mine stipulation is that where ever I train I want plenty of nogi classes, since I don't like doing gi. I've trained at the Gracie Barra for a while, very nice guys, just too much gi. I currently train at TapouT in Boston a few days, and I'll probably pick it up there a little too. I'll have to just travel around a bit and see what I like best.

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Originally Posted by Harry Evans

@AJ Thanks man, that's a nice article. I completely agree with every point he makes. So, are you saying you would train with the same guys, but use tourneys to get the benefits of outside opponents?

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Tournaments, seminars, drop ins while on vacation... whatever get you out there. It's totally different grappling against strangers. I find that when up against better BJJ players I tend to rely on Judo and Sambo attacking the legs whenever they stick one out.. which is weird because at my gym I'm the rubber guard player guy.