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I say it was a good stoopage and Herb Dean is the best in the game. I say if you faceplant, with both arms underneath your body, and take 2 unanswered h-bombs, The reff needs to stop it. What do you think 10th planet brethren.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ung7tjRc0Z4
I thought it was a little early because of who it was
and the fact that he was turning over onto his back
before it was actually stopped. I saw Herb moving
in and knew it was over, but was hoping he would
back off once he saw Fedor turning back over.
He was down hard, and it may have been over in 5 seconds
after that, but I would have liked to see if Fedor could have
got his hands back up once he rolled over.
I think it was a good stoppage as the possibility of him getting hurt was very high. Although I would like to have seen Herb Dean let it continue a la Kongo vs. Barry because we all know what happened there!
4:43 fedor only got punched 3 times before the ref stopped it. It kinda looked like he went limp for a second, I mean taking shots to the back of the head could potentially do that, but fedor had enough sense to turn into the man...
shouldn't have been stopped so quickly
When a guy is getting hit illegally to the back of the head and neck the ref should step in but Fedor was not done. Herb did his job protecting Fedor but should have given Henderson a warning and continued match. Rematch
good stoppage. however, i dont get the whole time to retire talk for fedor. people calling him washed up with a 31-4 record.. sure the last 3 fights were the 3 losses, but look at the losses. he wasnt dominated by werdum just got caught with a triangle. hendo and him were neck and neck until he got one well placed right hand as hendo was transitioning from getting worked. silva was the only dude that actually worked fedor.
now if it was 3 fights just like his against silva...back to back.. retirement would make sense. not the case though
In the words of Chael "Fedor, Sucks!"
3-3...
it was a good stoppage. however i don't think fedor should retire. he still looked dangerous and i think he still has some fight left in him.
After the slow motion replay, the uppercut the snuck through while Hendo was in the side ride position was solid. It was the right call with the stoppage. Sucks that Fedor is aging though. He's one of my favorite fighters of all time. He really should have been reigning in the UFC.
It's insane that the same people that enjoyed that back and forth slug fest are the same people who think that Fedor should retire. It was a good match and I want to see Fedor in more battles.
Henderson finished Fedor with massive punches to the back of the head which are illegal and highly dangerous. Henderson should have get a point deduction and even disqualification if Fedor could not continue. I am not a Fedor fanboy but these are the rules and they have to be enforced. I am seeing more and more, fighters finishing people off with punches to the back of the head.
Usually when people talk about the ref stepping in too early it's a ground-n-pound situation where the bottom fighter is still awake but not defending. What makes this so fucked up is that it's Fedor going limp. I'm still shocked that it happened but it is the standard reaction to dive in the moment a fighter flops like this. The only thing that makes me question it, is that Fedor is a legend for his chin and over-all freak ability to take damage and come back instantly. If Herb jumped in to block Dan then jumped right back out... As a Fedor fan I'd be ok with it but I"m sure Hendo fans would throw a Canucks party outside.
that sucks... but hendo got that win and thats that. I've seen fights stopped over much stupider reasons. And this is coming from a fedor fan.
but for some reason I still feel like fedors got more fight left in him. who knows, its all up to him, the promoters still want him cause the fans wanna see him fight.
He shoul drop to 205 IMO. He was carrying too much unnecessary weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole
I think fedor got knocked but after he got knocked out the extra punches woke him up
When people say he should retire, I don't think it's from an anti-Fedor point of view. Even though Ali gets credit for being the greatest boxer he still stayed around far too long and took way more punches than he needed to. When people look back at the Ali story they pick thier own favorait fight to end the story cuz the real fights at the end are pretty sad and unnecessary. At some point everybody has to call it quits, maybe sooner is better than later.
a lot of people crying about illegal back of the head shots as if they were cage side. herb had the best view and that's that. side of the head often looks like the back of the head. no foul. no harm.
That's my excuse for illegal moves too...that's that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy Chavez
I kinda bet money so at first I was butt hurt. So I watched the stoppage like 20 times.
I think it was a good stoppage. The ref's job is to prevent unnecessary damage. Fedor was out. Looks like one of the punches woke him up, but if you look, even when he was turning over, hew as turning in slo mo, and he wasn't really defending well enough to avoid more bombs from Hendo. If Herb would've let it go a bit longer, Fedor would be out cold and would've absorbed unnecessary damage. Herb knows when it's over. And even though the fans would rather see a more decisive "lights out" KO, it is what it is. Fedor got taken out.
I guess you can argue it was a littel early, but not to the point that it would've affected the outcome.
That's not quite right.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyK5
http://imgboot.com/images/kohler/dan...keforcebig.gif
It was an uppercut that clearly put Fedor out. The two punches behind the head were incidental. He was flurrying for the finish. Only two punches. That's not DQ territory. Eye gouging is illegal too, but it happens incidentally. But if you watch the gif, the moment Hendo notices his shots were illegal he switched to his left hand. Also if you watch, Herb had his eye on Fedor. Like I said, Fedor was rolling in slow mo. All that was gonna happen is a replay of what Hendo did to Babalu. Good stoppage.
Watch the gif. Fedor was out before the incidental punches. Also, there's a difference between intentional and incidental.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffington
He wouldn't have reigned in the UFC. He hasn't even reigned in SF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrique "Kiko"
Great post. I hope Fedor doesn't hold on too long. Honestly, I feel like Fedor hasn't evolved to keep up with the current crop of fighter at the top tier. He's too wild (sloppy). After watching his hands, JDS would eat him up. Cain would eat him up. After seeing the fight with Bigfoot we know the bigger man can hold him down so Brock would eat him up. After seeing what Barnett and Reem did to Brett Rogers and comparing that to Fedor's fight, I'm pretty sure they would both beat Fedor. Fedor struggled to beat a bum in Rogers. He hasn't had a significant win since pride. He beat a washed up Sylvia and a glass jawed Arlovski. Fedor was great for his time. He's a legend forever. But he ain't getting a win against any top tiered dudes unless he evolves. Personally, I've lost all interest in Fedor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carson
I actually agree it was good stoppage....but uhh no, he did not switchQuote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
to his left hand after the back of the head shots, he clearly swings with
his right hand two more times. They were clean after 2 though, and the
fight was over before the back of the head shots - that's the only reason
I see for him not getting warned.
My bad. I meant to say he switched to his left side (Fedor's open face). My point is, incidental shots happen all the time. Fights aren't stopped for warnings at that point. They're verbally warned as the fight goes on. But that wasn't Herb's concern. He just saw Fedor go flat. He's thinking, "fight might get stopped." He saw that Fedor wasn't going to defend the on coming damage and stopped it.
Hendo did nothing wrong. Herb did nothing wrong. Fedor made a tragic mistake.
BTW, props to Hendon on that reversal. That thing was sweet!
I disagree with you very much. I am not arguing if this was a good stoppage or a bad stoppage, I don't care if Hendo or Fedor won. My argument is that many fighters including Hendo finish their flurry with punches to the back of the head on a dazed opponent. This is done intentionaly like almost all of the knees to the groin thrown from the clinch. The fighters who execute these moves are fully aware that they are illegal but if they can get away with it they do it anyways. A hit to the back of the head ( the softest part of the skull) is so devastating that Matt Serra K.O.'ed GSP with one. I understand if you throw a hook from a standing position and it lands on the back of the head resulting in a K.O., but if you are standing on top of someone with them semi unconscious and you are pounding their head in, then you sir are at fault. I would want Hendo to get disqualified and fined by the athletic commission due to his actions AFTER he K.O.'ed Fedor. Knocking your opponent unconscious does not mean, you get to do whatever you want legal or illegal to them until the referee gets there.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
Many fighters? Would you mind listing them?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyK5
Also, how many professional fights have you had? Personally, I've had 0. But the street fights that I've had taught me a valuable lesson. Things happen when adrenaline pumps. Hendo landed a legal punch when he uppercutted Fedor right on the chin. His instinct is to unload with his power hand. He landed 2 illegal incidental punches. The rest were legal. He finished the fight fair and square. I'm impressed that, even with adrenaline pumping, he still had the presence of mind to switch to the other side. But no fines are needed. No NC's need to be handed out. He won fair and square.
Also Serra didn't KO GSP with it. He stunned him with it. There is a difference. Same with Cain when he caught Brock while he was ducking. Back of the head punches happen incidentally.
As far as the groin shots, I have to ask again, how many pro fights have you had? Groin strikes can be incidental even in sparring. If they weren't, guys would never wear cups. The cup is there because it happens.
Listen, I'm not saying you're 100% wrong. I'm saying there's a high possibility you're wrong. I highly doubt that every fighter is out there planning on hitting the other guy in the back of the head or landing groin shots. But there's a possibility you're right. Maybe it was intentional. Maybe all groin strikes are intentional (like GSP kicking Hughes in the balls twice to set up the head kick ;) ).
I just think you're looking at things with your emotions invested instead of seeing things objectively. I see incidental punches. You see blatant foul. The ref sees incidental punches and a legit finish. :)
The shots weren't cheap....but they were illegal, incidental or not.
I highly doubt Hendo was out there thinking about punishing
the back of his head, but that doesn't mean it should be excused.
Position is so important in these fights - it may even be strategic
to turn the back of your head to prevent shots due to the fact
that they would land illegally. Incidental or not, when you step
into the cage with someone, you are both in agreement of the rules
and it's a matter of respect to not plow down on the back of some-
one's head.
The adrenaline excuse was used in the early early UFC's and guys
got away with shots after the bell and after the ref stepped in -
they got warned strongly. These guys are different now - they aren't
street brawlers with no restraint, they are highly trained athletes.
That, to me, means that their strikes are very intentional and they
should be held to a very high standard of competition. Just two cents here.
I think it was a good stoppage because Herb stepped in as soon as the uppercut KO'd Fedor. I believe Fedor was out, and that the following shots woke him back up.
This is the moment where Herb stepped in:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...rhenderson.jpg
The shots are illegal. There is no excuse. They clearly happened. But there's a difference between an excuse and a reason. An excuse wipes the error away. A reason is simply an explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen G.
I have yet to see any fighter not land an incidental back of the head punch or two. It happens. Same with groin strikes. Same with headbutts. Same with eye pokes. Everyone lands them. Guys make mistakes and things happen. I'm sure if Herb felt they were intentional he'd have called for a DQ like when Mazzagatti had Jon Jones DQ'd. Like I said, if Hendo really wanted to be dirty, he'd keep going at the back of the head, but he switched to the other side when he noticed he hit the back of the head. The first one looked like he was aiming for the side of the head and he was 80% there, the second one looked aimed for the side but landed on the back as Fedor's head turned, then he switched sides. It doesn't take away that they happened. But it explains WHY they happened. It also paints a clearer picture of intent. As I said, it's not something that needs athletic commission intervention. Otherwise every groin shot and eye poke needs to get overturned.