How to "slow your roll" during live play?

Hey everyone. I'm a wrestler making the transition into jiu jitsu.

One of the sticking points I'm having right off the bat is I roll way too fast and hard. From what I understand, jiu jitsu is meant to be a slower and more thought out sport than say wrestling is. Does anyone have any tips to "slow your roll", especially for someone who is used to being explosive?

That leads me to another question. Is being explosive bad for jiu jitsu play? I'm used to blowing from one move to another but when I watch decent grapplers they "flow" between moves more than they "explode". I'm not really sure what modifications I should make.

Thanks for any help guys, I'm really looking forward to adapting my game to the next level.

I would go with the thought that we're going for submissions rather than pins. Submitting someone takes time and conservation of energy. Especially when facing an opponent that knows what you're attempting to do. Wrestling seems very fast paced.

I think, I don't know, most high level guys control their energy so the opportunity arises that you'll pretty much submit yourself. Having that explosive power is great. Use it! While training remember that you're here to learn, not to win. Don't crush guys, literally. Try things you're not comfortable with. Work your bottom game. You'll find you'll be more apt to conserve your energy and use that explosive power when it really counts. Being a wrestler gives you an advantage. Get out of your comfort zone and you may find you'll answer your question yourself.

Above all Jiu-Jitsu is suppose to be fun when you're in class. Relax, enjoy it and learn. I tried to write that without sounding like a jumbled up mess. Someone else might be able to help out better. But that's what I got.

Kieth Owen say it a lot better then I could. This video has been on here before. It's worth posting more then once.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JsEOI5sLRM

Don't be afraid to be explosive, just learn WHEN to be explosive.

Use your drill time to find the most efficient way to perform your movements. For instance, during a sweep attempt, if your opponent posts, take the time to find the easiest way to sweep him to a spot where he doesn't have base rather than simply exploding as hard as you can to take him over.

Okay I feel ya. Thanks Matt.

I forget about the injury prevention stuff a lot. I'm just getting back into rolling again I get really excited when I'm doing it. I think what happens is I get lost in the moment and want to go balls to wall because it feels good. But you are right, I don't learn much by doing that. And yes, tapping is very important. I've torn my mcl in my elbow before because I was too stubborn to tap. I don't want to learn that lesson again.

So the key points to focus on are loose hips, relaxed muscle and don't be afraid to tap. I can do that :)

Work smarter not harder. Thanks Brandon I feel what you're saying. Yea, so look for the best option that requires the least energy. I'm gonna need a lot of mat time. lol

The only perspective I can provide is that of a guard based grappler who has to deal with wrestling MMA fighters or pure wrestlers. The key to beating a wrestler is to take them into deep water. To make them battle over the monotonous technical minutia where they are not used to proper technique and how to conserve energy.

Overhook battles in guard, posture battles, omoplata control struggles... these positions may seem like athletic successes for my escaping wrestling opponent but in the span of the whole session, those moments make massive dents in their cardio and take very little out of mine. These are positions where they usually don't have efficient techniques. A wrestler can hit a clean, efficient, and economical double leg all day... but drag their posture down and they might push off your chest like a white belt.

Just a psychological persistence (such as not freaking out when I blow it and have to rebuild a guard from bottom side mount) is enough to counter several years of their wrestling against a few years of my grappling. It's not easy and there are no free meals but by keeping the technical battle in the realm of jiujitsu, I can beat them.

Advice wise, I think that you should learn and accept when you are stuck. These will usually be control positions where they have you locked up and where you usually have to explode or tear out of a position. From those stuck positions, learn the economical way to build an escape and work the counter.

Here's how I see it, every time that you feel the need the explode out of something, it is almost always because you don't have a technique to get out of it. Now this is what you're supposed to do in competition because it's not like you can call a time out and try to learn a move on the spot but in an environment such as a gym, you have all the time in the world to experiment. The gym is for learning and competition is for performing what you've learned. You can't learn too much if you're performing and you can't perform well if you're just trying to learn. These are completely different mindsets that are not meant to be exchanged. I go about 15% strength and speed in the gym and I'm already usually the smallest guy there and nothing annoys me more than seeing some bigger guy try to go 100% to beat me, as if I couldn't go harder if I wanted to. You have to choose if you want to win meaningless gym battles or if you want to progress every night. If you use a lot of strength, you will never know if you actually understand the technique. If you can do a technique at 15% strength and speed against someone going hard, then you know you know it and if you can't, you probably don't know it well enough. So the next time you feel the urge to explode because you don't know the proper technique, stop and feel for the path of least resistance and when you go home, finding the right technique for the situation you were in, should be number 1 priority. Powering out of techniques in the gym is a missed opportunity to learn something.

You have already begun doing things right by first recognizing the problem and then asking for help on here. It is one of the most common mistakes people make in their first couple years of no-gi training ... not conserving energy properly and going Ballz to the wall in the gym. Makes the more experienced guys sit back and laugh and remember when they used to do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Justin W.

Here's how I see it, every time that you feel the need the explode out of something, it is almost always because you don't have a technique to get out of it. Now this is what you're supposed to do in competition because it's not like you can call a time out and try to learn a move on the spot but in an environment such as a gym, you have all the time in the world to experiment. The gym is for learning and competition is for performing what you've learned. You can't learn too much if you're performing and you can't perform well if you're just trying to learn. These are completely different mindsets that are not meant to be exchanged. I go about 15% strength and speed in the gym and I'm already usually the smallest guy there and nothing annoys me more than seeing some bigger guy try to go 100% to beat me, as if I couldn't go harder if I wanted to. You have to choose if you want to win meaningless gym battles or if you want to progress every night. If you use a lot of strength, you will never know if you actually understand the technique. If you can do a technique at 15% strength and speed against someone going hard, then you know you know it and if you can't, you probably don't know it well enough. So the next time you feel the urge to explode because you don't know the proper technique, stop and feel for the path of least resistance and when you go home, finding the right technique for the situation you were in, should be number 1 priority. Powering out of techniques in the gym is a missed opportunity to learn something.

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+1

Yea that's a good point. I do just blow out of holds because I don't know the technical way out. So I'll slow down and find it. I'd much rather be a good technician than a meathead asshole :)

dont listen to anyone, most people bjj people are scared of wrestlers, be explosive as much as possible, practice how you play. although, do not let your 'power' take place of technique, it would suck to miss out on some of the finer points for your development.

i saw a post that said know when to be explosive, and this is good advice

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Originally Posted by Justin W.

Here's how I see it, every time that you feel the need the explode out of something, it is almost always because you don't have a technique to get out of it. Now this is what you're supposed to do in competition because it's not like you can call a time out and try to learn a move on the spot but in an environment such as a gym, you have all the time in the world to experiment. The gym is for learning and competition is for performing what you've learned. You can't learn too much if you're performing and you can't perform well if you're just trying to learn. These are completely different mindsets that are not meant to be exchanged. I go about 15% strength and speed in the gym and I'm already usually the smallest guy there and nothing annoys me more than seeing some bigger guy try to go 100% to beat me, as if I couldn't go harder if I wanted to. You have to choose if you want to win meaningless gym battles or if you want to progress every night. If you use a lot of strength, you will never know if you actually understand the technique. If you can do a technique at 15% strength and speed against someone going hard, then you know you know it and if you can't, you probably don't know it well enough. So the next time you feel the urge to explode because you don't know the proper technique, stop and feel for the path of least resistance and when you go home, finding the right technique for the situation you were in, should be number 1 priority. Powering out of techniques in the gym is a missed opportunity to learn something.

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+1 to the whole comment, but especially to the bolded. Just yesterday I was getting owned pretty bad. We were drilling side mount bottom to 25% or ghost escape. The guy on top, clearly more experienced than I, kept putting me in bad positions, and eventually he almost had me in a crucifix. I was clueless. So my dumb ass bench pressed him off of me instead of working on what I was supposed to work on. Why? Because I didn't have the technique to escape properly.

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Originally Posted by AaronNicholson

Yea that's a good point. I do just blow out of holds because I don't know the technical way out. So I'll slow down and find it. I'd much rather be a good technician than a meathead asshole :)

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Listen, it's a good thing to keep your explosiveness. Wrestlers are devestating grapplers and you should never lose what you worked hard to earn. It's taken years to develop that wrestling game. Don't throw it away. But when it comes to BJJ, if you want to learn, slow down to focus more on tech, but also, while drilling, you wanna let the other guy learn too. Resist at 40%. We know reps are important. And the other guy needs them just as much as you do. You're doing him a disservice by not letting him get the feel of the motions if he's moving slow and you're moving full speed. But for you, it's good to go slower to pick up the little details. When it comes to rolling though, if you're a wrestler, don't lose that. It'd be foolish. Like someone said. Just know WHEN to be explosive, and when to be conservative.

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Originally Posted by The kza

dont listen to anyone, most people bjj people are scared of wrestlers, be explosive as much as possible, practice how you play. although, do not let your 'power' take place of technique, it would suck to miss out on some of the finer points for your development.

i saw a post that said know when to be explosive, and this is good advice

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LOL @ don't listen to anyone, then giving advice. But good advice nonetheless. I recall Royler (I know his name is anathema on here, ha) said no gi is more about explosive movement than gi jj. Why do you think wrestlers do so well in adcc and mma? So, like has already been said, don't throw away your explosiveness away all together. Just know WHEN to be explosive. Wrestling instincts aren't all bad unless they get you into trouble or gas you out.



BTW guys, great thread. Tons of great advice. I'm taking notes.

I think I'm still getting used to being in a room where people are actually willing to let me practice. In most wrestling rooms I've been in everyone's ego is on the line and doesn't want to get pinned. This makes it really hard to drill or learn any moves. It seems in bjj people are a lot more chill. I've got to get used to that and remember I don't need to power through things just to survive. I'm a little guy, I float between 135 and 145 so I'm used to getting hammered by bigger guys all the time. But it seems I don't need to worry about just surviving anymore. Now I can focus on technique.

I won't forget about being explosive, but you're right... relying on it does leave out lots of opportunities for growth. It seems wrestlers have a bad name tho eh?

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Originally Posted by AaronNicholson

I think I'm still getting used to being in a room where people are actually willing to let me practice. In most wrestling rooms I've been in everyone's ego is on the line and doesn't want to get pinned. This makes it really hard to drill or learn any moves. It seems in bjj people are a lot more chill. I've got to get used to that and remember I don't need to power through things just to survive. I'm a little guy, I float between 135 and 145 so I'm used to getting hammered by bigger guys all the time. But it seems I don't need to worry about just surviving anymore. Now I can focus on technique.

I won't forget about being explosive, but you're right... relying on it does leave out lots of opportunities for growth. It seems wrestlers have a bad name tho eh?

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Ha wrestlers have a bad name....and that's a good thing. It's because wrestlers are tough mf'ers and hard to handle until they make an error or tire out. So much movement and power is not easy to contain. Like trying to contain dynamite in a jar. Embrace the hate. You have a skill set that not many pure JJ guys have. It's worth being hated for. LOL. (They have a bad name in MMA for being boring though. ;) )

And you're right...in my school there's not a whole lot of ego going around. In fact, some guys that I know can straight demolish me will let me get positions during drills to help me learn. Because of that I've been picking up moves so much quicker. Imagine if they completely neutralized me every drill? I'd feel like I'm not learning anything. We're all trying to learn. It's just as much about learning as it is about helping your partner learn too.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

Ha wrestlers have a bad name....and that's a good thing. It's because wrestlers are tough mf'ers and hard to handle until they make an error or tire out. So much movement and power is not easy to contain. Like trying to contain dynamite in a jar. Embrace the hate. You have a skill set that not many pure JJ guys have. It's worth being hated for. LOL. (They have a bad name in MMA for being boring though. ;) )

And you're right...in my school there's not a whole lot of ego going around. In fact, some guys that I know can straight demolish me will let me get positions during drills to help me learn. Because of that I've been picking up moves so much quicker. Imagine if they completely neutralized me every drill? I'd feel like I'm not learning anything. We're all trying to learn. It's just as much about learning as it is about helping your partner learn too.

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+1

Wrestlers have trained most their life to CONTROL their opponent, so they often forget to look for the submission. But with that said, we all know that when a good wrestler adds a good JJ attacking game to his arsenal he is definitely one to look out for.

Keep doin what your doin...you will be a beast before you know it :)

This is a fantastic thread. I had never thought about it much but when someone attacks me with a kimura from top side mount, whether the attempt to finish it or transition into an armbar, I often explode into them and go for a single or just get to bottom sprawl. Thats something I definitely need to work on.

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Originally Posted by Griffin Lambert

This is a fantastic thread. I had never thought about it much but when someone attacks me with a kimura from top side mount, whether the attempt to finish it or transition into an armbar, I often explode into them and go for a single or just get to bottom sprawl. Thats something I definitely need to work on.

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That might be a part of your game though. I don't think anyone should ever get rid of anything that's high percentage for them. Bill Cooper does a lot of stuff that would make instructors cringe, but it works for him. Exploding isn't always that bad. If anything speak to your coach about it. They might even be able to refine that into something better.

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Originally Posted by The kza

dont listen to anyone, most people bjj people are scared of wrestlers, be explosive as much as possible, practice how you play. although, do not let your 'power' take place of technique, it would suck to miss out on some of the finer points for your development.

i saw a post that said know when to be explosive, and this is good advice

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Definitely. I envy the explosiveness of wrestlers.

I had a standing guillotine on my training partner the other day and he escaped it just by shoving off of my face and retreating. He's very strong and athletic and he apologized for muscling out. I told him that it was totally fine since he didn't really create a technical error in the position he was in.

Basically, the only time it's actually bad to power out of something is when it wastes energy due to poor technique, or if it is a technical error that a stronger opponent can capitalize off of (like bench pressing somebody off of your chest, or power yanking your arm out of an arm bar). The latter situation is actually the worst one since you are wiring your muscle memory for poor techniques that will result in a critical error against a stronger or more skilled opponent.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

That might be a part of your game though. I don't think anyone should ever get rid of anything that's high percentage for them. Bill Cooper does a lot of stuff that would make instructors cringe, but it works for him. Exploding isn't always that bad. If anything speak to your coach about it. They might even be able to refine that into something better.

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I partially agree with this because I think it depends on who you're catching certain moves with. Anyone can catch beginners with almost anything, especially when being explosive and using a lot of strength but that doesn't validate the move. All moves are higher in percentage against less skilled opponents. When you see high level black belts that are smaller than their opponents and smashing them going 15%, it's proof that there is always a technique and you should not deprive yourself of learning it because something was "working". Explosiveness should be used WITH technique, not in place of it. I believe highly in survival of the most adaptive, rather than the fittest or the smartest. Use a move until you find something better. Always look for better ways to do everything.

How to "slow your roll" during live play?

With this:
http://www.drankbeverage.com/

Seriously, follow the previously mentioned advise. Focus on technique, and your bottom game. Give up the ego and learn. It's hard to do, but your game will grow faster. Been rolling close to three years and still have to remind myself this at times.

Yea John that actually sounds really cool. I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to dietary supplements. That "drank" has got some decent stuff in it. Have you tried it?

As for changing my style, I have always been in wicked good shape so going all out has never been a problem for me. I'm also an avid lifter and I'm a big fan of power moves like snatch and clean and jerk. That stuff has always made a difference in my game. But I do understand how going 100% all the time is actually robbing myself and my partner opportunities of to learn. The last thing I want to do his hinder their performance or worse get them hurt. I can mellow myself out at practice and focus on learning and precision, and then at competition I can go balls out. Besides, I can still always lift like a crazy man.

Thank you for all the thoughtful responses guys. This is really a neat community to be a part of. I look forward to meeting you and rolling with you all :)

Interesting ideas guys. I have a lot to think about and so much to learn.