Limitation on the Lockdown?

One of the black belts who drops in during our Hotbox training sessions, really funny guy, gives some really great tips and advice on how to improve my game, showed me something interesting. He's about 150ish and on the short stocky side. Okay he's actually really short. It makes it so all he has to do to get his leg out of my lockdown is leg curl just an inch and slip out to the side and he's out of my lockdown at will. So my question is Is the lockdown still effective on people with much shorter legs than you? I am still barely scratching the surface of the system, so until someone qualified says something, I'm going to attribute my inability to lock down this guy's leg to an error in my technique.

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Originally Posted by Enrique "Kiko"

One of the black belts who drops in during our Hotbox training sessions, really funny guy, gives some really great tips and advice on how to improve my game, showed me something interesting. He's about 150ish and on the short stocky side. Okay he's actually really short. It makes it so all he has to do to get his leg out of my lockdown is leg curl just an inch and slip out to the side and he's out of my lockdown at will. So my question is Is the lockdown still effective on people with much shorter legs than you? I am still barely scratching the surface of the system, so until someone qualified says something, I'm going to attribute my inability to lock down this guy's leg to an error in my technique.

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Man I know exactly what you mean.. how can you lock down someone's legs when the moment you stretch you'll lose the lock. You almost have to lock em down with your thighs rather than your shins.

Solution: Be ready because he will grab the back of your head and slice right through your helpless lockdown. The moment he does, whip your outside leg to the inside of his thigh and go for a one-butterfly. The scramble will continue, but at least he doesn't have side control just yet. You may have to reset and get up to one or both knees.

You can also try transitioning to deep half and quickly come up for the sweep. Hmmm, yeah that should work.

the godfather, or plan b

How do i increase my strength? Everybody slips out
And wat do i do qbout guys with short legs?

it also helps if you keep his knee off the ground the minute you get the lockdown in. he wont leg curl so easily if you raise your legs just a bit. thats just something I've seen.

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Originally Posted by Corky

How do i increase my strength? Everybody slips out
And wat do i do qbout guys with short legs?

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There's not one answer for everything. Every technique has a counter. Increase your strength? I weigh a buck fifty and regularly go against 220 lb-ers. Leverage and angles.

Leverage and angles allll day son!

Hey kiko ihave long legs as well and It seems opponents have a way easier chance of getting out of lockdown the shorter their legs are. Its like when you stretch them out you stretch out way past their ankle and have nothing lockdowned.

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Originally Posted by Don Blankenship

Its like when you stretch them out you stretch out way past their ankle and have nothing lockdowned.

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That's EXACTLY what happened. I even elevated his foot and he slipped out with total ease. I'm thinking of putting in reps in a couple of options from deep half guard to be able to get them in live rolling with someone who has short legs. That may or may not be a good thing since I'd really like to get my lockdown, whip up into perfect double unders game down to an A+. I'm probably at a C- to C at it right now.

Start going lockdown to stomp, it will open up your halfguard game a little for guys who are good with the no hand pass and guys with shorter legs.

Try reverse lockdown to disorient his foot location (he'll be sticking his heel in the wrong direction) and then either attack the bad side of the lockdown or stretch him out, switch to a normal lockdown, and immediately work the sweep. I have a guy at my gym who can cut his knee through faster than I can secure a lockdown. I use this tactic on him.

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Originally Posted by AJ Camacho

Try reverse lockdown to disorient his foot location (he'll be sticking his heel in the wrong direction) and then either attack the bad side of the lockdown or stretch him out, switch to a normal lockdown, and immediately work the sweep. I have a guy at my gym who can cut his knee through faster than I can secure a lockdown. I use this tactic on him.

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Reverse Lockdown?! AJ that may qualify as jiu jitsu genius. I like the potential to disorient them. Can you clarify what you mean by "attack the bad side of the lockdown" pretty please?

I think Eddie did a vid about some options from the lockdown in the wrong direction. Others might have to jump in because i don't use that route but I think it's about trapping their right arm to their body to force a sweep.

MTS episode 15, son!

as always, a good squeeze in your legs will help you get some time. some people still can get out, but at least you got some time to figure out what to do.

I like the lock down but for me it isn't a position you want to hang out in or keep a guy in for any length of time. I will use it long enough to get where I need to be via whatever I am going for. Maybe your lock down is fine but you are there to long and they are able to counter.

I'm kind of with Art on this. I've got crazy long-ass legs and it can be a real bitch to hold onto a short guy's leg. For starters, gi pants and ankle sleeves will help. Anything that increases friction with your legs will up your percentages (there's a gi/no-gi argument there; we'll address that later...). Second, treat it as a stop on the way to a better position. Holding on to a slippery little Gnome is hard even with good leg squeeze so don't stay there -- get to whippin' ASAP. Last but not least, pay attention to where your hips are in relation to his. When you're stretching that lockdown it should pull his whole body down and get his hips low. If his hips are higher than yours he's got room to move -- eliminate the space and he has less room to wiggle that leg around in the first place.

Attacking with the lockdown on the opposite leg, lockdown on the outside, and traditional half guard are other options as well and don't neglect your whizzer/pimp hand options (e.g. stomps to butterfly). The whip down was something I played with a bit before moving to MN and I had some success with that as well. I forget which MTS that's in; it might be 14.

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Originally Posted by Slick Rick

There's not one answer for everything. Every technique has a counter. Increase your strength? I weigh a buck fifty and regularly go against 220 lb-ers. Leverage and angles.

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^ What slick said! It's not about the length of your opp's legs nor his strength.... It's chess! There are an infinite # of moves and COUNTERS hint hint! If you still have any q's send me a pm. Halla!

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Originally Posted by AJ Camacho

I think Eddie did a vid about some options from the lockdown in the wrong direction. Others might have to jump in because i don't use that route but I think it's about trapping their right arm to their body to force a sweep.

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There are a few options here as well, sweep, deep half, etc...

did you realize that it may be because he is a black belt? lol

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Originally Posted by Max Hernandez

did you realize that it may be because he is a black belt? lol

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Sure lol, that's probably the primary reason why he literally slips past my defenses like a hot knife through butter. That and he says the best part of his game is his deep half game and his guard passing and his scramble game. Nasty combination noh?

My hotbox brothers all have helped me and given me their input on lockdown troubleshooting vs guys with shorter legs as well.

I love how I have an entire community's collective wealth of experience and knowledge to help me improve my game and I love being able to help out others too. That's probably the biggest motivator for me to progress in the 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. First reason being it's in my top two or three fun things to do in life, and secondly the giving and receiving of information to help people in their game is so rewarding. When my 5 year old back mounts me and puts his hooks in, it fills me with a sense of pride. All you coaches, parents, and friends who help friends in this game I'm sure can relate.

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Originally Posted by Enrique "Kiko"

Sure lol, that's probably the primary reason why he literally slips past my defenses like a hot knife through butter. That and he says the best part of his game is his deep half game and his guard passing and his scramble game. Nasty combination noh?

My hotbox brothers all have helped me and given me their input on lockdown troubleshooting vs guys with shorter legs as well.

I love how I have an entire community's collective wealth of experience and knowledge to help me improve my game and I love being able to help out others too. That's probably the biggest motivator for me to progress in the 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. First reason being it's in my top two or three fun things to do in life, and secondly the giving and receiving of information to help people in their game is so rewarding. When my 5 year old back mounts me and puts his hooks in, it fills me with a sense of pride. All you coaches, parents, and friends who help friends in this game I'm sure can relate.

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hey man just listen. we all strugle through these stages. im getting close to two years of training now. struggling through. not really a struggle just an enjoyment. Im in an enjoyment through. We being tenth planet experience the same paths and difficulties since we play the same game. we will get there. we gotta keep training. i feel like im breaking through a big barrier at the moment. hey. listen. think about something good. think about water on a hot day. think about 5 meats for 19.99. how does it make you feel? Wait ! don't think to hard. just relax. just relax. we will train. yeah we will. good stuff.

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Originally Posted by Don Blankenship

think about 5 meats for 19.99. how does it make you feel?

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I feel like I'm a Shaolin monk sitting double lotus under a blossom tree beside the pond of reflection. I am ready to fight Tai Lung.

I agree with Rick! You can start pushing the butterfly in while curling your inside leg around.
Also I think (with my extremely limited knowledge) if he's curling the leg up and around out of your lockdown, that's DEFINITELY taking away from his base. He's opening up sweeps and your ability to shrimp out for a few seconds.
The angle of the lockdown also matters.

When Mark lockdowns me all I can really do is that and immediately he uses it to whip up (cause i'm trying to lift my leg as i bend it) or get the butterfly in and sweep me.

It all depends on what works for you and what works against him, how your body types work together and how tight the lockdown is. Most of the time if someone has double unders and lockdown and I bend my leg, they use that to shrimp cause I get light on that side for a second.
But I don't know much, so my suggestions are close to invalid

I sometimes have to loosen my legs(or shorten the distance to my feet) and make it like a loose crappy lock down, but I have to follow there foot tension. Locking down the foot is hard for me when a short legged person hides their foot. Also squeezing with the thighs like Slick Rick said. My Lockdown feels different for different leg length people. I might have to write down what different leg length people feel like now that I think about it.

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Originally Posted by Sean Marshall

I sometimes have to loosen my legs(or shorten the distance to my feet) and make it like a loose crappy lock down, but I have to follow there foot tension. Locking down the foot is hard for me when a short legged person hides their foot. Also squeezing with the thighs like Slick Rick said. My Lockdown feels different for different leg length people. I might have to write down what different leg length people feel like now that I think about it.

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A "Relative Leg Length vs Lockdown" graph? Sounds like we have a math major =D, and I like it!

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Originally Posted by Enrique "Kiko"

A "Relative Leg Length vs Lockdown" graph? Sounds like we have a math major =D, and I like it!

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Too bad i failed math. Geometry was cool but after that I was in la la land all the time.

Didnt fail. Almost failed math.

Kiko, I was in this situation again last night.. Here's an option for you

Locking down a guys right leg(he has super short legs so it's easy for him to weave his leg through for a pass)..
->Overhook his right arm(you should already have this anyway)
-> whip your left leg to his right inner thigh
-> bring your knees to your chest
-> deep half with your right arm under his LEFT hamstring
-> X-Guard and Stretch his legs out
-> Sweep him backward, and continue the pass

I hope this helps... It worked for me.

Dont worry Rick we are working on it with Kiko. His problem is that for him there must be a black and white answer. He is still in the baby stage of understanding nothing in jj is black and white its all grey area lol. He is one of the, well i did it and it didnt work. We are working with him on outside the box thinking. Thanks for everyone's input.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Woolsey

Dont worry Rick we are working on it with Kiko. His problem is that for him there must be a black and white answer. He is still in the baby stage of understanding nothing in jj is black and white its all grey area lol. He is one of the, well i did it and it didnt work. We are working with him on outside the box thinking. Thanks for everyone's input.

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No worries Brandon. Yes, the black and white. They grey area comes in with the reps, and those same "what-if" questions. Good stuff man.. If I can chime in on anything, I'd be glad to help. Take care.