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I have a bit experience in Muay Thai, Goju-Ryu Karate and MMA (more so with Luta Livre rather than Jiu Jitsu) , but i'm hoping to start training purely in Jiu-Jitsu rather than it just being an element of an MMA session. I was just wondering if no-gi Jiu-Jitsu is a strong place to start, as I was thinking I may need to take a more traditional Gi class to learn the fundamentals. Thanks for any replies guys. "Stay Black".
If u want to do bjj tournaments start with the gi, do wrestling, then go to nogi because its more advanced. You may get many baised responses on the gi here, i would ask in other places aswell to have several perspectives
I'm interested in both MMA competition and BJJ tournaments. Thanks for the advice, it's appreciated.
I got alot better fast after getting the gi on (may ofc be cause I got more hours a week in ;P) I was against the gi for along time, but now I enjoy it although I usually tend to not use gi techniques when I have the option not to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Clayton
I recommend training with the gi aswell as without, techniques comes easier with the gi so you have to use your brain some to make em work without, but the gi slows the game down and makes it easier to get into, and also gives you rockclimber gripstrength and thats never a bad thing :P
Thanks for the advice, i've gotten more of an insight within a few hours on this than I did asking around locally for weeks. I think i'll try both gi and no-gi.
If you enjoy GI competition, do GI. It's a beautiful sport. If you want jiu jitsu that's geared towards MMA, focus on nogi. Many of the gi moves do not translate into nogi or mma. One of the big wig Gracies himself said that most gi moves do not translate to MMA, on video. Someone who knows what I'm talking about please feel free to link it on this thread. I think it was Rickson, but I'm not 100% on that till I find the video or someone posts it. So Jordan, really it's just a choice on how you want to "play" on the mats and what kind of playstyle you want to develop. Yank and Pull game *gi* or Clinch and Squeeze game *nogi.* I'm a hardcore nogi fan myself and train 100% nogi, but that's not to say that gi isn't also fun if you're so inclined.
...forget all notions that the gi makes your basics better. No GI is a great place to start ESPECIALLY FOR MMA. Do you wear the Gi doin MMA? No. Can you grab collars and sleeves in MMA? No. So why train that way? My dad always taught me to practice like u play, so well you know ditch the GI for MMA.
^^Yep, specificity of training in sports applies to grappling just like it does to every other sport.
Gi training is fine if that's what you are into. But, it is absolutely NOT necessary to get good at no-gi.
that's interesting concept that people talk about. i was thinking about a fight joe rogan was comentating on about a fighter (i forget who) and he said "he's been training no-gi his whole life, so he doesn't have those "gi-tendencies"". This got me thinking about how if you go from gi to no gi (smoke serpent?) you might have to switch your brain and focus on what your doing and you may grab or do something accidently and if you had the gi on it'd be a technique you'd use, hence a "gi tendency". might be worthwhile if you are strictly doing mma to just to no gi. BUT, there is nothing wrong with aspects of both in your mind especially if you have mastered the elements of both with no issues in transition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helge Båtstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrique "Kiko"
I think it was Roger Gracie.. and I think he said that 70% off all bjj didnt work in mma when the punches was flying.
And so with that you can argue that nogi is also not very good for mma if you dont always train with punches.
Well how I see it there are a couple of different kinds of BJJ you can learn. You can learn it with a Gi, with no Gi, for MMA and for self defense. Although No-Gi and MMA are a bit similar their are thing really different in every branch of BJJ.
I find that rather insulting that you say there will be biased opinions on here. I think 10th planet as a group are more than capable of removing our own personal preferences and look at the pros and cons of studying in and out of the gi.Quote:
Originally Posted by The kza
To me it all depends on what your looking for. If you want to fight mma, then studying in the gi seems rather pointless to me as all mma matches are fought without the gi. Thus the techniques you will be practicing with the gi may not directly translate over to the no gi mma format, due to gi techniques relying more on sleeve and collar controls. Just as judo won't translate well into competeting in wrestling matches. For self defense purposes the gi could be useful as it simulates a hoody or a jacket. But then again no gi techniques will also work in street fight situations. There is absolutely loads of discussion on this topic. Submissions 101 which has both gi and no gi guys seem to cover the topic pretty comprehensively, if you search there website.The whole arguement that the gi is better for teaching fundamentals seems nul and void to me and irrational, despite alot of the great bjj guys saying thats the way to go. I think it all depends on what you want to focus on. I would actual say gi practioners are alot more biased towards the gi than no gi guys are towards no gi, they seem to want to make excuses and invent usefulness for the gi when when a bit of rational thought is applied seems to hold no weight.
I personal train in the gi as i love collar chokes. But i try and take keith owen's approach and be diverse as possible,and have as many gi and no gi techniques a spossible, its not going to make you worse off.
you should start NOGI if you want to be the greatest of all time.
but i hear the gi is useful if your under attack by a rapist in a jean jacket, from what i hear, denim and leather is just like the GI. Renato Larange is right about the GI being the best, so think about it. maybe watch some Renato videos and see how good he is, from what i hear there's video of him vs eddie bravo.
No Gi jiu jitsu is a great starting place if you can find some OCD instructors. OCD instructors are obsessed with "exact" technique, not "close-enough" technique. Time and time again I've found that Gi guys and 10th Planet Jiu jitsu guys are the most OCD NoGi practitioners out there. Without exact technique, your kinda missing the point.
I've had matches in the thousands in No Gi. I've only trained 15 times in Gi. What I get caught in when rolling gi(brown and black belt level) is collar chokes, but even that is hard to get on me. For mma you won't have to worry about collar chokes though.
If you can't find any OCD NoGi guys, then go gi for about 3-6 months, while doing your NoGi. After that period, in my opinion, you should be able to hang your gi up for a long while.
I am aiming more for techniques that are directly applicable to MMA, so i think i'll take your advice and try no-gi. will i still advance in rank?
10th Planet Ranking is all NoGiQuote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Clayton
Just as long as you start something, somewhere, in time this will answer itself. 10p is def the fast track for offensive grappling imo.
that's a great way to put it, rick!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Rick
rickson said that perfect technique is down to the millimeter. that leaves a lot of room to constantly strive to make your training more precise, and helps you see what to look for in a quality instructor, as well.
Good info Brandon.. Where did Rickson talk about perfect technique in? I'd love to read/watch it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
But it's so true, I was talking with Bollinger last night about this same topic. He agreed, if you strive to be precise on your movements, it'll make you a better grappler. The systems in 10th Planet are so set on exact technique, because the next technique weighs heavily on how you executed, with precision, the first technique.
Have you noticed how getting perfect technique in jiu jitsu has translated to other aspects of your life, and vice versa? It's awesome!
i've had the privilege of training with him a few times and that was something he mentioned at the end of our training once. he's not only an incredible technician, but an excellent teacher, as well. he stresses principles, concepts, and philosophies over specific techniques. one of his primary principles is what he calls "invisible jiu jitsu," which is basically his way of teaching you to connect with your opponent in a precise way and with leverage and efficiency based techniques.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Rick
Damn!! that's some ish Brandon. Invisible Jiu Jitsu, not to be mistaken for Braulio Estima's dvds right? You're a lucky guy to have trained with Rickson. I heard he is one tough S.O.B!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
It is a great experience. I never learned one new move from him. Only better ways to do the most basic of techniques (bridge and roll, hip escape, scissor sweep, etc...).Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Rick
I haven't seen Estima's DVD set, so I don't know if he is teaching the same kinds of things. But Estima is incredible, so it's gotta be good :)
Last time I trained with him, there were about 15 people in the room. Every time he would teach he would refer to the 2 players on the mat as the "lion" and the "zebra." I honestly don't even know if he consciously realized he was doing it. Gives you just a little insight into the way he views the game.
When u use the gi the game slows down, due to the handels, and you have 100% of your arsenal. Once u take the gi off the game slows down, and you loose about 25% of your arsenal. Then when you add strikes again you loose another 25% of your arsenal. just keep it in mind.
Damn that's amazing.. I need to get to a seminar with him then. But yeah Braulio's Invisible Jiu Jitsu dvd set is kinda eye-opening.. sure it's in the gi, but how it relates to no-gi is awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren