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wow did they not mention the potential twister? or did i miss that, all i saw was the calf crank.
2 hooks are overrated. Single leg ride is where it's at. How about an Eddie Bravo breakdown on the back?!
They mentioned the twister. Then said they didnt think anything would work on Nick.
I can control/finish higher level guys way easier from truck. Especially the calfcrank. It really was sceamin at Bj to transition.
noQuote:
Originally Posted by J Grooms
I think so sir.. one leg grapevine is way better in my opinion.
We all were screaming...lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
IDK why they would say they don't think it would work. Either tap or be fucked up really really bad....what choice does he have he loses either way. BJ really messed that up imho..
There are situations when you would love to have that second hook. Promise. More options of control. You dont have to choose one or the other so why limit yourself?
Is full guard overrated to half? yadig?
I know what you're saying.. I'm saying 2 hooks are usually preached as the end all be all. That is why I think they are overrated. I use a single leg grapevine more than 2 hooks. I still use 2 hooks as a control, but more as a transitional position from grapevines to anaconda. I still sub from 2 hooks as well, but just feel more limited there opposed to grapevine. To each their own :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
Yeah, we agree. One hook is waaaaayy underrated would probably be more accurate.
I liked that crucifix escape. Pretty slick.
I find myself switching between the two quite frequently. I would agree theres more control with two hooks than one. I much more prefer the body triangle anyways over trying to control with the hooks.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
Looking at the posts in here, does anyone feel like BJ might have lost touch with BJJ? He used to be a BJJ phenom because that's what he was training primarily. But in his last 4 fights, he's taken the back on 3 of his opponent and hasn't been able to finish. Do you feel like he's kinda lost touch with BJJ since he's been focusing so much on other aspects of his game (boxing)?
I feel like he might have. Seems like he hasn't evolved or kept up with the evoultion of BJJ. There were a few options ahead of him and instead he gave up position. Just thinking out loud I guess.
thats is a good point but I also think it has something to do with how much better guys are getting. things are way different now and it used to be once you had someone back that was it. Now guys are defending better than before. I dont think it would hurt BJ at all to get back to his roots alittle.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
I dunno man. I do think bj has kinda gotten away from his roots. Its weird how awesome grapplers just want to stand and bang. He has awesome back attacks but I kinda think the back defense is getting super legit. Like Jon Fitch has an awesome ground game eventhough he never subs guys. The last guy Penn submitted was Kenny Florian and that was a text book Bj Penn back attack. So its been 2ih years sense he subbed someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
That's my thought. You're right, it's definitely a lot harder to finish from the back. But part of me is like, dude was looking for traditional options only. I can't help but think what if he had a few more tricks up his sleeve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Yockel
I was having a convo with a friend and was like, man BJ got his BB and won the mundials in 3 1/2 years! Imagine if he woulda stuck around in BJJ a little longer instead of diving head first into MMA.
The only thing that got me even asking the question is how guys are saying he had a few other options besides just trying to secure the other hook. I'm a white belt man. I'm just thinking it was good back defense. I mean, it was. Nick is a G so props to him for staying cool and getting out of a bad position. But guys in this thread kinda pointed out that he had more options than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent "Deimos" Smith
With BJ being out of the BJJ game for so long, I'm wondering if he's kept up with the progression that BJJ has made. Would he be mundials material now? I'm not so sure man. He seems more focused on his boxing than his grappling these days. Makes me sad.
That was a nice Ghost he showed in the Cro Cop/Nelson breakdown.
Great breakdown, thanks for the link.
Nah, he hasn't lost touch at all. he still trains with lots of high level guys, and has forgotten more about BJJ than 99% of anyone will ever learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
He just has amazing boxing for MMA and loves to throw leather on the feet. I mean, in his last fight, he was taking Fitch down and getting the back. No one does that to Jon Fitch. Jon Fitch, a guy who can wear out basically anyone at 170 not named GSP got out grappled by a natural 155 pounder in BJ Penn. That's pretty crazy.
Before his recent 1-1-1 run at 170, BJ's last win at 155 was with a beautiful Mata Leao.
I guess I agree that if he decided to try and tae Edgar down earlier in the 2nd fight that maybe would have been a better strategy. But you can't fault him. He wanted to knock Edgar out after losing that 1st fight, which most people agree should have gone to BJ.
Once again I can see the point but I don't think it's fair to lump BJ in the box of grapplers that just want to stand and bang.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent "Deimos" Smith
He had vicious hands from the start, and I think he won his 1st 3 or 4 fights with punches. His fights with Joe Daddy, Sean Sherk, and Diego Sanchez showed that he had arguably the best jab in MMA. His short uppercuts are vicious too.
He lost the standup with Edgar because Edgar is simply too damn fast for BJ to land enough hard shots on him. Edgar just constantly moves and throws little flurries. Once again, in their first fight, BJ got the better of the striking with head shots and power shots.
The only times BJ has really been out-struck on the feet have been in the 2nd fight with Frankie Edgar and against Nick Diaz.
Also, he KO'd Matt Hughes in like 15 seconds, what, two fights ago? Then he out grappled Jon Fitch.
Even with those impressive feats, of course I wish I saw BJ work more on the mat, and I was hoping to see some of that against Diaz, but Diaz is so good from the guard and at scrambles. That would've been an awesome ground fight though, that's for sure.
I agree about back defense getting so much better.
You too can play the Gracie Breakdown Drinking Game! Just take a shot every time Rener Gracie expresses a desire to "keep it real" or mentions how he or someone else is currently in check with the realness being kept. Bonus: take three shots if he mentions how an inanimate object is somehow "Keeping it real".
See, I that he still rolls with high level guys....but is it with the gi? If so, I doubt it's going to translate well. But you're right. He's forgotten more than I'll probably ever know. Maybe BJ knows other options to finish from that position but he's just a traditional guy so he sticks to the basics.....like Roger. But yeah, finishing from the back is no longer a guarantee.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMike2k9
I guess I'm just disappointed that he lost. IMO he still better than Nick in every aspect except cardio. We see that in round 1. He dominated the boxing and the ground. But at the pace they were going (which is what Nick does to everyone) BJ got tired and just didn't have the energy to defend properly or complete his takedowns.
I don't think my liver can take that kind of drinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
He did not Dominate anything he landed 6 more punches in the 1st round than nick that's not domination that's a slight advantage. As far as the grappling goes bj got one take down and its not like Nick tried to stop it he gave it to him to create a scramble Penn ended up on his back but never threatened so the grappling was wash.
You think Bj was wore out after that slow ass first round and that's why Nick whipped his ass in the second? he through 20 punches and one effortless take down and that wore him out? Not even Penn is in that bad of shape. The second round was a result of Nick's dominate striking Not Penn's lack or cardio
Umad?
I don't think Penn has the frame to properly compete at 170 (speculation). If he doest finish the fight in the first he wears down and loses it. Any iea if he's able to properly train cardio without losing too much weight? If I remember correctly he doesn't much if any weight to get to 170.
penn just played into his game. if you watch the diaz brothers last couple fights, they wanna put your back against the cage, stay out of your range n do that stockton slap boxing bullshit. i mean its a legit strategy for them and it obviously works, but bj just kept backing into the fence. the gsp fight will not be the same story. i mean how many times did he hit bj in the 2nd and 3rd rounds? why wasnt he sleepin after all that? its that same shit that the both do. just mho
Penn spends a lot of time rolling both with the gi and without the gi.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado