http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tjRZ...layer_embedded
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Freestyle wrestling is overall the best for takedowns! But I would still love to see Herzog release a no-gi judo throws DVD!
Fixed. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
That's not necessarily true. In Greco you're not allowed to attack the legs for a takedown. The best wrestling system for takedowns would be one that would allow you to utilize whatever you can for a takedown.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifreez
Funny!!! Greco Roman has limitations!!!Freestyle does NOT!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ifreez
Freestyle!Quote:
Originally Posted by J Grooms
Interesting that sound like a gi vs no gi argument lol
I know.. I was just spelling it out lol. Catch Wrestling is the same but just with submissions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
It's just one more reason why Marcelo's game is exactly the same in the gi vs. no-gi. These videos are outtake sessions from his new book, where Waitzkin and Marcelo go out of their way to explain the philosophy behind his training. It's really awesome, and I recommend his new book to anyone. I'm convinced that a huge part of his success is that he isn't tied to the idea of having to use any specific techniques.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Alighieri
Aside from having the same game regardless of what he's wearing, he also does not ever study opponents, as he feels it would be playing into their game. He wants to pull people into his game, so he doesn't care to watch tape at all, except to see how people start the match off. He also doesn't watch other matches at tournaments he competes in. He also keeps his same schedule regardless of the upcoming tournament. So he always rolls gi and no-gi, no matter if ADCC is coming up or if it's the Mundials. He keeps the ball in his court.
Awesome stuff.
http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Brazi...2079598&sr=8-1
catch wrestling > all other wrestling
A lot of free style guys, also NCAA, are pretty bad at upper body clinches when they hit MMA or the grappling circuit. A mixture of both is good, but free style guys mostly are not good at clinches from the upper body.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
The feeling I get from Marcelo is that in his heart he has no use for the gi, and he only wears one out of tradition so he doesn't have to be a rebel.
Judo for MMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytnan0zjubg
lol what?Quote:
Originally Posted by rock d
It's not being a "rebel" to not wear a gi. Where is this silly notion coming from? Almost everyone in BJJ trains without a gi and participates in no-gi tournaments. Not wearing a gi is about as rebellious as talking back to your high school math teacher.
Here's a newsflash. Marcelo is probably the best P4P Jiu-Jitsu player ever. In terms of his training philosophy and his game, he does whatever he wants. Marcelo didn't get to where he is by worrying about what other people thought about him. Shit he still has a lot of opinions that go against the grain.
He trains both because he competes in both and teaches people that compete in both. It's not that complicated. Here's his schedule:
http://www.marcelogarciajj.com/schedule.html
Now he could make his schedule entirely gi or entirely no-gi and it wouldn't effect his business either way. Because of his resume people are going to train at his academy no matter what. His schedule is split because that's what he prefers.
That Karo dvd is dope by the way
I could be wrong, but I thought NCAA was folk style not freestyle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifreez
you're right.
NCAA is folkstyle (the kind practiced in high schools)
As stated above, Marcelo is one of the best BJJ (in the gi) competitors ever. He has won the World Championships, 5x as a black belt, and at every other belt level too (blue, purple, and brown)...I think he likes training in a gi just fine :)
this coming tuesday i'll be at his school in NY for the whole day. i can't fuckin wait
Yeah, and I confidently believe that if he had been able to compete in the Worlds in 07 and 08 I think he would have won those as well. Terere was his only nemesis at his own weight class.Quote:
Originally Posted by kying418
+++Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefheart
[QUOTE=rock d;100864]The feeling I get from Marcelo is that in his heart he has no use for the gi, and he only wears one out of tradition so he doesn't have to be a rebel.
As a Marcelo student who doesn't take Gi class, I've discussed Gi vs No Gi with Marcelo many times. Marcelo definitely likes the Gi and sees no real difference in training with it or without it. As seen on this video showing Marcelo's training camp for the No Gi ADCC competition, Marcelo trains in Gi even when he's preparing for No Gi competition.
http://www.graciemag.com/en/2011/11/...th-adcc-title/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Nall
you just gave me chills thats so savage....
[QUOTE=Ric;101086]Interesting that Marcelo makes a distinction between Judo takedowns with the Gi and Wrestling takedowns without the Gi. The difference training with or without the Gi is greater on the ground than standing in my opinion. Marcelo's game is not Gi reliant and the reason he can do both equally well from what I can see.Quote:
Originally Posted by rock d
Herzog has done a really nice job of integrating no-gi judo into MMA and grappling -- especially integrating the throw, pass, and position after takedown. He never just teaches the throw for the sake of the takedown. It's always throwing for position. He's got a great vid of a drop seoi nage to d'arce choke but I don't know if he's done any other no-gi judo vids. My judo is awful ('cause I don't work on it!) but I think it's good to have more options than having to shoot for a takedown and it certainly can be trained no-gi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npWCyoudvRc&t=3m38s
He definitely believes in the gi.
Start at 3:38
The best I've heard the Gi, No-Gi argument explained is by Braulio on Rolled Up. If you haven't seen that, you should watch it.
Bias opinion is bias..Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Stolfi
But Braulio in his favor does speak from a great position. Dude won ADCC in his weight and the ABsolute, subbing almost everyone including Marcelo, and just beat Jacare in no-gi ADCC Superfight. He's a fucking animal without the gi. He's a top 3 submission grappler on earth no argument at al.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifreez
he advocated doing both by the way, as do most elite level players. He didn't hate on no-gi at all.
Great video, thanks for sharing :)
if you think that training in only one of the other is better you are just flat out wrong.
Training in both is superior to one or the other. common logic. the more perspectives you can get, the better. sambo, judo, wrestling, bjj, and 10th planet = ownage.
His opinion is biased because he's been training with the gi his entire life, and most people who do that have nice things to say about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Nall
He tried to approach the issue in a logical way, and didn't come off hating on anything, which was nice, but it was still a flawed argument. He said the Gi makes you better NoGi because it forces you to be smart: an argument I'm sure we've all heard before. You can't just yank out of a submission, sweat won't save you, etc. Here is the issue: The gi forcing you to have good technique is a terrible argument because a good instructor and a good student should be working to this goal no matter the uniform. If that argument is true, it is better to enter JJ with 0 strength or flexibility, right? With no physical abilities at all, you'll be forced to always user proper basics and fundamentals to win. But we all know that's shit. A strong guy just needs to not muscle it, a flexible guy still needs to work his basics and not only rely on his dexterity, and a guy with no gi needs to focus on not just yanking out of stuff. However, you also SHOULD use these attributes once in competition. If you can muscle a guy for a win, why not? If you can rely on your flexibility to smash a guy, why not? And if you're about to get tapped and there is enough sweat or room to yank out, then god damn you better just yank like your life depended on it. Arguments regarding that you need the gi to get good at technique, or even that it helps, are very incorrect imo, for that reason.
As far as just wearing a gi and using no-gi grips so you never have to adjust but at the same time letting them grab yours so your escapes are harder: That doesn't make you better at escaping, it makes you better at escaping in the gi. If there is a simpler, faster escape method no gi that still works no matter the sweat level, better to just learn that then all the collar-grip breaks. Again, just how it seems logically, but people will always listen to the winners even if their arguments don't follow logic.
[QUOTE=Ric;101086]I find it interesting that you train there and don't take any gi classes. You don't enjoy it? I guess the gi isn't for everyone. However, I find it to be super fun as well, especially if you can train with a legend like Marcelo.Quote:
Originally Posted by rock d
I find it interesting that before he says that Wrestling is better for no-gi take downs, he shows a combination move which finishes with (basically) a "valley drop". That's a Judo move for the takedown; I don't think you'll find that combo in many wrestling camps.
He's just showing a technique- that might not be completely related to his wrestling vs judo thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hirt
I've asked him several times- he still feels the most effective takedowns in not only no gi, but gi bjj, are double and single legs.
There are a few takedowns that are common to both Judo and Wrestling. The move that Marcelo shows in the video is called a Lateral Drop in Wrestling. I think he is referring to Judo throws that rely on the sleeve/collar/belt etc. that would have to be modified for No-Gi Grappling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hirt