For me, there's over a 90% submission rate with the "bollinger neck tie". Even when they're ready for it, they can't stop it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ-ae...e_gdata_player
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For me, there's over a 90% submission rate with the "bollinger neck tie". Even when they're ready for it, they can't stop it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ-ae...e_gdata_player
Yea, I hate it when people do that... I know that it comes natural but then again so does trying to bench press someone when they're in high mount... That's why we train, we learn to fight against our "natural" instincts and let technique prevail... As Renato would say: "that's Jiu Jitsu"!!!
bolinger neck tie looks awsome,,!!
So is 10th Planet Sweeden on here? I thought they were big on the gi.
My instructor is big on the Gi so I'll try to hit up a Gi class once a week or so, but I'll catch lockdown alot and work a lot of half guard stuff to sweep. man that lockdown has become bread and butter for me!
Renato, respectfully, please do some research. Gracie/Brazilian Jiu Jitsu comes from Judo learned from a Japanese practitioner. Judo comes from (I think) 9 different Ju Jutsu schools that Jigoro Kano studied and integrated into his own philosophies/training methods. For years, the Kodokan Judoka trained without what we now recognize as the "JudoGi" or "Kimono" worn in BJJ. He developed it for the sport of Judo and to have a uniform for students to practice in. Prior to that, they trained in every day clothing with no special design for the sport. A gi is just a piece of clothing, it doesn't matter what you wear practicing your art. Karatekas, Sambo players, Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai Boxers, and Judokas ALL call their art what it is regardless of what you're wearing when you use the technique. What, are you going to ask the mugger in Miami Beach to wait a minute while you run to your hotel for your gi and then run back to confront him? No. You're going to do what you have to do regardless. I also find it funny that the hardcore gi players have no problem saying that it's Jiu Jitsu that wins regardless of the technique or what they're wearing, but don't take note when they lose. I respect all, and everyone's opinion, but I really am getting bored with meaningless debates and opinions that aren't fully researched. Ari, I think this is a great idea. I've found gi to be easier with having the grips, but I don't believe the gi makes my no-gi better. Different aspects of the same discipline.
"Yea, I hate it when people do that... I know that it comes natural but then again so does trying to bench press someone when they're in high mount... That's why we train, we learn to fight against our "natural" instincts and let technique prevail... As Renato would say: "that's Jiu Jitsu"!!!" -Josh Smith
I typically just go limp and stop rolling when I feel someone has latched onto my rashie, and continue immediately when they let it go. Gets the point across without any potential for conflict.
I find it easier to maintain Twister side control with the gi on
I love gi BJJ, I love TPJJ, and I mix the two...A LOT. Here is a random list of some things I have noticed, off the top of my head. I'm curious to hear what people think, and would love feedback. BTW, many of the problems here I think could be fixed by readjusting/redesigning the moves for a gi and not being attached to "how the video says to do it online" when it is a nogi video. Eddie and everyone else have spent years tweaking everything perfectly for nogi, so don't expect the same thing to be perfect for gi - you gotta use your head!
1/2 Guard:
-It is easier to keep someone flat with grips, so whip-ups are harder to use, especially to sweep (vs recovering guard)
-Grips make a lot of TPJJ moves possible from just a deep-1/2 (or inside 1/2 or whatever you want to call it)
Full guard:
-As noted by others, something similar can be done with the gi, which also has much more rotational force with it
-Grips make it way easier for the guy on top to stay tight and wait for just the right moment to posture hard and slip out
-Gripping the gi in various spots or the belt can really help transition between RG positions, e.g. if you can't get the double-bagger, just grab his belt.
-I have no idea why, but the triangle lockflow series doesnt seem to work nearly as well in a gi. I go for teepees and bolt locks, but I only ever seem to get the regular triangle. I think it is because they can get a grip with the trapped arm?
Twister Side Control:
-Seems to work perfectly, if not better. Because it is more dynamic than regular side control, when the guy rolls out, he really has nowhere to go when you can just grab his gi. Add in lapel chokes even as threats, and guys just give up other positions and subs.
There's a million others, just off the top of my head
I have a question for you gi guys trying to use the lockdown with a gi. Once I get double unders, my neck feels open. I keep it tucked into the guy's chest and all that, but it still seems easy for my opponent to pull a lapel choke, or most especially, an Ezekiel. Nobody has ever successfully Ezekieled me no-gi, but it is my Achilles heal with a gi on. I find I have to give up all of my good positioning to defend it - unders, on my side, something even the guard itself - and even then I get taped by it over 1/2 the time. I go for sweeps, but it's not always there if the guy is big or has strong base. Do you find this problematic as well? How do you deal with it? I highly doubt anyone is getting Ari with an Ezekiel, but how does it get defended when people try?
This is an interesting topic to me because I am getting ready to start training at a gi school in my home town out of convienence but I truly believe that the 10th planet system is the way to go when it comes to submission grappling. I'm glad to see that other people are out there making this work.
Ari,
I'm all about the Hangman SGD10! What do we need to do to move forward?
cagesidemma.com also sells gi bottoms without the tops, 25.00. its where I got mine, they shrink a little, so order big, they are nice with knee padding sewn in.
thank you john roderick for saying what you said. I had this very debate time and time again. I think that for the sport jj guy, Ari has an awesome idea, and I think that Ari is a great guy, but I believe that the very essence of what we do in 10th planet is to conquer our need for the gi by focusing on the squeeze and use of hooks to accomplish what the gi practitioners utilize the gi for. just last night in class, I was saying that gi practitioners have to rely on the gi to be successful whereas with proper technique and focus on securing our positions, we dont have to rely on the shortcuts offered by the gi. Like I said, I think that Ari's idea is great for guys who train 10th planet but wish to participate in gi sport jj, but lets not lose the very essence of what is 10th planet jj.
Jay
The man in charge of this is Magnus in Sweden. The hangmen was something I came up with in jest but I have always have played around with gi/10thp stuff. Since Magnus is the black belt in BJJ (and brown under Eddie in 10thP), Eddie made him the General for the hangmen he will decide what direction this will go.
I am more like a sgt in arms ;-)
Frank, thanks for the kind words brother. I appreciate it.
no problem, Ari. believe it or not, you are the very reason that I even discovered 10th planet, and the direction that my life is going in right now. So without sounding cheesy or gay, I owe you alot. hopefully one day, we can get together and tell you all about it.
I go for the uchi mata when someone gets me in dogfight. Its a lot harder to get a clean throw because you don't have much off balancing technique on your knees. It actually works very well though to stop the dogfight position. I get wrist control on the far arm so they can't post too. Food for thought :)
My school is both gi and nogi but of course I get shit for never wearing a gi but when I do I use 10th Planet with it and it actually seems way too easy with the gi on. I use the no leg rubber guard but set it up from half to get an easy carni. When I use the stomp I stuff my outside foot into the belt in the back and use that as my butterfly while my stomping foot moves to the outside and sweeps the leg under old school style. Anytime I get to even just mission control there's extra chokes, the x with your pantleg, meathook and feed the lapel to your hand, tons of stuff. Oh shit and from the back using one of your legs to half nelson while you grab the lapel with your hand. None of the guys had seen these before.
This is an OLLLLDDD thread, but I have a constraint of no-gi schools around me, and one thing I hear often from people at the place I train is that gi will tighten up the no-gi.... I have never found it to be true, but is this everyone's opinion? I dont like the gi training, but since its all I have around, I put up with it. But I was mostly curious as to the general consensus on that... will the gi game make no gi better?
i agree with renato helio wore gi and thats enough for me jiu jitsu with out a gi is great but on street people were cloths jackets with collars and such so with that i say train both ways gi and no gi never put gi away completely
My philosophy is that life is short so do what you enjoy.
If you like nogi do that.
If you like the gi than do that.
If you like both (like I do) than do both.
I think some people get turned off in the gi early on because you can't move as freely as you can without the gi. Also there is a lot more to learn so that can be frustrating as well. But if you persevere you might find that the I can be a lot of fun. Not to mention that your training options are much broader if you train both. Im in japan right now and there is no nogi around here at all. At least not in cold months.
I don't employ the 10th Planet 'system', but I use a lot of the 10th Planet techniques, and I found that they work fine. There are also a lot of gi only submission and sweep opportunities that branch from the 10th Planet techs.
For example, from the lockdown, I use a baseball choke set up from the bottom that perfectly complements the 10th Planet moves, when someone tries to defend the whip-up/electric chair by dropping their hips.
For those not familiar with the baseball choke I'll try to explain:
Imagine I'm locking someone down on my left side, so that their free leg is on my right. They know I want to whip up and they are concerned about the electric chair, so they drop their hips, and base out the leg. It can be difficult to get much going from here.
Untuck their gi on your right side and pass the bottom corner of their lapel over their shoulders and overgrip it with your left hand (over their right shoulder which is on your left side). Then reach up over their left shoulder (your right side), with your right hand and undergrip the lapel. At this point you should have one forearm on each side of their neck. Then you squeeze your elbows together while twisting onto your left side.
Be sure to release the lockdown once you have your hands in place, because you want them to try to pass, it only makes the choke stronger.
This is an extremely tight and quick choke, so you need to pay attention to your partner. This is one of the choke that can make someone go unconscience before they can tap.
HERE IS AN IDEA: Maybe Renato can show some gi only moves that branch from positions that 10th Planet people often find themselves in.
its crazy to hear alot of people are doing this. A few people and I at the gym have very recently started tying in the gi.
I think the gi almost forces you to use nothing but sleeve pulling and collar choking. It makes arm triangles and rubber guard more difficult and less fun, specifically because there is sooooooo much fabric to push through and deal with. With the gi I find it pointless to do any submission other than collar chokes.
What do you do at the Beach, or during the summer, or surfing. You get a split sec behind the game, because your natural "grips"aren't there... Behind a split sec in sport JJ or MMA= a loss. In the street= alot worse. My experience, not just $.02.
I am not bashing the Gi, I train both, as I believe everyone should.
BTW, Idaho =8 months of cold weather a year = F ALL THAT SHIATE!! Keep the spirit and KEEP TRAINING HARD!
Nonesense! I roll in the Gi with NoGi grips almost all of the time... It's a great handicap to give your opp for training! My Guilotine,Triangle, Arm Bar, RNC's are deadly! No-Gi or Gi! Ask anyone on here or elsewhere that has rolled with me ;) You know you're good at a technique when your opp knows it's coming and they can't do anything to stop it!
Training in the Gi will increase your posture and base (because of pulling on the collar/sleeve). Seeing how posture and base are crucial aspects of the No-Gi game... Then I would say the Gi would be a good training tool to "increase your performance" in No-Gi. There are many more angles/aspects that Gi training provides. But these, I think are the biggest benefits.
Training in gi makes your gi skill set better, training in nogi makes your nogi better. Sure there's some crossover, but the two sports are so very different now, regardless of the similarities. It's like kung-fu and karate, or judo and greco-roman. in nogi sweat is a big factor, so those over/under hooks better be working.
we also don't have alcohol limits on % in beer. bars are open til 4, have the highest amount of fast food per capita, and some amazing scenery. I realize not all of that is good, but whatever.
I stated jiu-jitsu about three years ago and was doing it for three months before i completly tore every tendon in my right shoulder and was out for over two years. I started back about 8months ago and I have always wore a gi. About 2 months ago now i ran across 10th planet and eddie bravo. It has completly changed my game and I have been using the gi. Its alittle hard for me to get as much reps as ya'll due to my gym being a traditional jj place so im just practicing some of my techniques after class when we free train. I would have to say that eddie's techniques fit me perfectly. Im a small guy at 130lbs and most guys in my gym are 160-260. These techniques used with gi on larger guys is amazing. I have found one problem with them grabbing my pant leg and using that to try and pass which they are sometimes successful, unless i can catch that leg in butterfly while in mission control. It sucks that I have no gyms closer to perfect my technique but the technique section is amazing and now that i found a 10th planet about 3.5hours from me i plan on taking that trip once a month. Im looking at competing in NAGA coming in april and i wish to do it in the gi so if anyone as any tips or suggestions let me know. Im gald this site exsits because it has completly pissed off everyone in my gym, lol. They hate rolling with me now, lol!!
This is how i do it when i roll bjj i usually get rubber guard right away and they dont know what the hell to do
Wen i do no gi i dont stand a chance because they are all more experienced
Renato what black belt degree are you? Do you have a belt in 10th planet?
Can I order this design as a patch for my gi?