The Middle Game: Where Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling Meet...

Wrestlers are the masters of the take down and and Jiu Jitsu dominates the ground. It is the Middle Game where the two begin to merge. The Middle Game is the battle on the knees and both disciplines have strong points. It is in the Middle Game that a good grappler finds a way to keep from being dominated. And it is not just the Middle Game from wrestling or Jiu Jitsu but most grappling styles such as Judo and Sambo can add to your expertise in the Middle Game. How much time do you dedicate to the Middle game?

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Originally Posted by hamzatu

How much time do you dedicate to the Middle game?

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As per your definition the 'Middle Ground' is the battle on the knees... If that is the case sir I/we spend 80% of our time here. I am a takedown guy, I love playing from the feet and I push my students to train takedowns always. Especially when approaching a Tournament date this is given more attention.

On the other hand, however, we play ALOT from our knees for a few simple reasons... Space constraints with a full mat of students is the main concern but also it cuts down on frivilous takedown related injuries. While there can be no substitute for takedown training this 'Middle Ground' is where we live ;)

When we roll, we typically start from full guard but there are guys who I like to open up and play from the knees or buttscoot. I don't typiacally do that unless it's someone who I know has some attacks from there; otherwise I feel like I'm not really doing much for my defense.

In general Wrestlers dominate the takedown in No-Gi and Jiu Jitsu dominates the submission game on the ground while both Wrestling and Jiu Jitsu are strong for positional control.

There is no 'Middle Game' from the knees.

As far as lower body submisison fighting is concerned, Sambo & Catch Wrestling are generally the most advanced for leg locks.

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Originally Posted by Jason Mallory

In general Wrestlers dominate the takedown in No-Gi and Jiu Jitsu dominates the submission game on the ground while both Wrestling and Jiu Jitsu are strong for positional control.

There is no 'Middle Game' from the knees.

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There is very definitely a Middle Game from the knees. It is where snap downs occur. It is where arm drags from the knees occur. It is where the guillotines from the knees occur. It is where knee picks occur. It is where whizzers and tight waist happen. And countless other techniques occur including the battle for position on the knees. I have been teaching the Middle Game for years. It is a part of the science of grappling.

Ok, I see where you are coming from. That's all part of ground fighting to me.

I think it is safe to say...middle ground or not, we ALL need to be well rounded and be sponges that absorb whatever we can. In the realm of MMA and grappling competition being one dimensional just doesn't work. A good healthy mix of wrestling along with some Jiu-jistu never hurt anyone. Saying that, I fell victim to the "lay and pray" wrestler and have since vowed to never let it happen again.

I don't spend anytime on my middle game since I prefer to train standing takedowns. If I'm injured and have to start from the ground I'll usually just snare half guard with an overhook and then go to work.

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Originally Posted by Jason Mallory

As far as lower body submisison fighting is concerned, Sambo & Catch Wrestling are generally the most advanced for leg locks.

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This is not the Middle Game.

I'm all for cross training. Especially for MMA.

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Originally Posted by hamzatu

This is not the Middle Game.

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No, it's lower body positional fighting.

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Originally Posted by Jason Mallory

In general Wrestlers dominate the takedown in No-Gi and Jiu Jitsu dominates the submission game on the ground while both Wrestling and Jiu Jitsu are strong for positional control.

There is no 'Middle Game' from the knees.

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I would have to agree. Only time I work anything from the knees is doing some "friendly" rolling. In a real competition situation, if I am on my knees, my opponent better be on his back(or dog fight). If not, stand in base.

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Originally Posted by Clayton

I would have to agree. Only time I work anything from the knees is doing some "friendly" rolling. In a real competition situation, if I am on my knees, my opponent better be on his back(or dog fight). If not, stand in base.

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A lot of times the Middle Game happens in a scramble.

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Originally Posted by hamzatu

A lot of times the Middle Game happens in a scramble.

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I get what you are saying now. Those positions like being flattened out from a sprawl where you still have a leg, dog fight or a failed sweep or transition where it is that scramble for position. Interesting thought process.

Wrestling has some awesome ways to attack someone in the turtle position to get them on their back or side. There's the quarter nelson, far knee far ankle, tight waist ankle pick (or just an ankle pick), barbed wire, etc. These are great ways to get your partner/opponent to a position where you are in control.

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Originally Posted by Heidi McCreery

Wrestling has some awesome ways to attack someone in the turtle position to get them on their back or side. There's the quarter nelson, far knee far ankle, tight waist ankle pick (or just an ankle pick), barbed wire, etc. These are great ways to get your partner/opponent to a position where you are in control.

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Couldn't agree more!!! It also has superior takedowns & increases clinching endurance!!!