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I've been having a lot of trouble getting the referees to award me points. I'm going to list a few videos bellow as examples. But mostly it is my guard passing points. Typically following a lowckdown sweep.
May 25th, 2013 -- Gold Medal Match -- Men's 145 lb Advanced NoGi -- Kumite Classics, Pittsburgh, PA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-JZ34nGNRU
2:00 (timestamp)
Attachment 2158
June 8th, 2013 -- PAGC Superfight -- Versus Professional Fighter & Multiple Time NAGA 139.9 lb World Champion, Chip Gerber -- Beaver Falls, PA
1:48 -- I pull half guard.
3:00 -- Is the time closer to the transition
Attachment 2164
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQAM8oWtx_M
I feel like it ruins the natural experience of grappling when a person has focus on time and points, instead of transitions and submissions. Wish there were more submission only tournaments
June 8th, 2013 -- Semi Finals Match -- PAGC Men's 160 lb Advanced NoGi -- Beaver Falls, PA
2:55 -- Time Stamp, No Guard Pass Points Once Again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM1l_cUy5GY
Attachment 2160
This video simply caps off the PAGC tournament. Not relative to the: Where's My Points?! topic.
The video is only 0:56 seconds long.
June 8th, 2013 -- Gold Medal Match -- PAGC Men's 160 lb Advanced NoGi -- Beaver Falls, PA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDC5EweQIHI
Attachment 2161
Do the rules pf the tournament give points for passing directly off sweeps? Like if i hook sweep you right to mount i dont get passing points.
Not every tournament has official refs the ones in winnipeg will mostly be students of the school putting it on. Sonetimes people make mistakes.
July 20th, 2013 -- Semi Finals Match -- Grappler's Quest Men's 129.9 lb Advanced NoGi -- Morristown, NJ
0:46 second -- Eventually I received points for the sweep, but no points for the pass.
1:10 -- Do I still get points for mount even if the bottom guy has a submission attempt? (I thought I would, but didn't)
1:35 -- I've always understood the rules as you can't grab your opponents clothes. But you CAN grab your own. Anyone?
3:03 -- No guard pass points again. I even had a bear hug on him.
3:30 -- Technically I should not have been given mount points for it was a mounted triangle. Though I am in favor of changing this rule.
3:50 -- Bad stoppage by the ref while I am grambying to finish the triangle that started in mount.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58uuh3u66ew
Attachment 2163
Video 1, Video 2, and Video 5 had official refs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Brick
Video 1: IBJJF Rules
Videos 2 - 4: NAGA Rules
Video 5: Grappler's Quest Rules
It appears to me that I have to alter the way I pass after my half guard sweeps in order to gain all of my points.
It may be as simple as slowing down my transitions. But I am open to advice.
Thanks, everyone!
P.S.
I enjoy the point system for the most part. Some things should be altered. Mounted triangles. And body triangles from rear mount, specifically. In some cases the defense to these submissions is to give up position. Be swept, passed, etc. Sometimes the defense to these positional disadvantages is to leave yourself exposed for a submission. It's fun to see how it all comes full circle.
Yea, they Jipped you on that points for the pass , fortunately you were playing for the finish , Nice BTW. I pulled guard from standing in my last tournament athe guy held me up for about a min +, then drops to his knees still in my guard and the ref gave him a take down , Sometimes us 10P guys get it rough , but we have take it with a grain of salt and a smile because they know whats up.. Good Job
the way I always understood it was the same reason you don't get points for taking a person down into side control. you get the takedown points but not passing. you don't get points for being in side control, you get points for passing. they have to establish a guard for a few seconds before you can get points for passing it, otherwise you've bypassed the guard (you can't pass if you were never in their guard). it needs to be like this otherwise someone in side control would be able to dip their foot back in their opponents guard and get it out really quick and call it a pass. if you really want the points, wait a moment before passing after sweeping.
0:46 yeah, that was a little slow for the ref to award you the points but he eventually gave it to you, so no harm there and no points for the pass because of what I said previously about that whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by James O'Brien II
1:10 definitely no points until you establish a position and being in a kimura while on mount is not establishing a mount. if you had gotten out, then the countdown would've started to get your points.
1:35 I've never been to a grapplers quest but every nogi tournament I have been to, you are allowed to grab your pants/shorts (I've even heard this is allowed in MMA) but not your opponents clothing unless they have gi pants on. weird rule I agree but an old rule.
3:03 definitely no guard pass points because your opponent was rolling over on his stomach. I use this strategy a lot when my guard gets passed. no points unless you either put the hooks in for the back points or get chest to chest in side control for the pass points. essentially you're still in a scramble if you haven't established a position yet.
3:30 for the same reason you didn't get points for the mount at 1:10, you shouldn't get points for your mounted triangle. there's an active submission going on and no points are awarded to anyone until the dust settles and someone establishes a position. I know you know you don't get points for this, I'm just explaining why it has to be like that.
however, all of this is irrelevant since you smashed these guys anyways lol nice matches dude but yeah, hope my insight helped out a little.
Some may look as us as if we are being pedantic about getting our points being that the majority of the above matches were finished by submission. Though the people in the know should understand we are truly trying to perfect the art! (:Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin W.
Thanks for the response. It surly helped.
A couple comments:
I still feel at 3:03 I should have been awarded passing points in the GQ video. My argument is that he didn't make it to his knees in time. He laid on his side for a long enough duration to make me think I had a secure position -- I believe most people call it the Chair. Or the Chair Sit Position. -- It could be a ref to ref decision. Obviously I wasn't stuck with a highly experienced ref during this match. -- Or I could be completely wrong! Lol.
Brad Souders, a black belt under Tatu, told me under IBJJF rules that all points are awarded for sweeps, positions, and takedowns. Regardless if the guy is attempting a submission. Like a take down is awarded even if you are stuck in a damn guillotine the entire match after the takedown. This would apply to the mount position where my arm was trapped.
Simply what I have been told. Not fact. But it is good to get it out there that these are other competitors interpretation of the rules.
Thanks again for your insight, Justin!
I agree. I don't understand why people would wanna handicap themselves by not studying the points game. Points are a huge part of the game when competing. You can't expect to submit every single guy all the time and would you rather lose to something that could have been easily avoided or scrape by and get a step closer to getting that gold. Also, if you win/lose by an inch or a mile, a loss is a loss and a win is a win and all anyone cares about in the end is about who got the W no matter what excuses you come up with after, no matter how legitimate they are. You got the right attitude. You can ALWAYS do better no matter how good you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by James O'Brien II
As for the 3:03 situation, I believe his back is supposed to be somewhat on the ground. since he was completely sideways, he could've stayed there forever and you wouldn't have gotten passing points because you were technically attacking the back. it's sort of a safe zone for the guy on the bottom as far as points go. I always go on my side to buy some time to regain my guard and I've never had a ref give my opponents passing points for it. kind of cheap but that's just one of the advantages for knowing the rules.
I have a sweep I love to use that always ends up in a kimura and all refs including ibjjf ones will wait until I escape the submission before giving me the points for the sweep. I've never read the rule about this, I'm just going from experience but it seems logical to me. a position isn't dominant if you're the one defending but who knows, definitely something for me to study up on.
anyways, thanks as well. this discussion has led me to look for some answers, which can only lead to a better understanding and make me better.
3:03 -- I always thought that you had to come to your knees to avoid the guard pass points. Maybe what I had thought is wrong and I need to read up on it. Or actually ask a respectable referee. But sometimes it isn't about what a respectable referee thinks/knows. It's about what the referee on your mat THINKSQuote:
Originally Posted by Justin W.
When I sweep from bottom half guard to top side control. My argument to the comments made that there was never a guard to be passed. Well. When I was in bottom half guard. Both my opponent and I are using guards. So when I come to the top, sweep, then end up in side. The guards the movement started from are passed while I finish in a dominant position.
Just annoyed that I never once got those passing points.