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I've been playing Hindu control a lot here lately because I've found it to be a great position for controlling the pace from the bottom. I was wondering if anyone has some attacks other than the standard Guillotine or Triangle (which is really just the meat hook triangle)?
The stock, dead orchard arm bar, zombie to one armed kimura (probably low percentage), switch to gun show (another triangle set up, x choke), what I call dog show (gun show from chill dog for a nice transition to gogo clinch/shoulder lock series, or gun show triangle set up), etc. It's not always about the individual spots you're in, but how you're able to flow between spots.
If you're ever in California, you got teach me these set ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
I'm not sure what Gun Show or the Stock is, is it anywhere on MTS? I'm gonna try setting up dead orchard with hindu tonight.
I found Gun Show, and I kinda use the dog cshow but I zombie first and wizzer the around their arm then grab my leg like chill dog as close to the knee that I can to get a tight grip on their shoulder. It's a really awesome sweep!
We can definitely trade ideas when I make it out there! But lemme just say that Hindu is something I'm really just getting into, so I'm definitely not qualified to say that I'm good at it. I just know that you can work this stuff in there...... If you really wanna give up the Hindu control that is. To me, being caught in Hindu is one of the most compromising positions I've ever found myself in. Josh Yelverton at 10PGS is a killer with it. I literally give up mount to avoid being caught in Hindu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Spalla
get workin on that lotus!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Spalla
I don't know a lot about this position, but after EBI 1 it caught my attention and even more so after reading this forum. I looked up some of Ben Eddy's stuff on youtube, and found this link (http://youtu.be/Y5ZQNgG2hNC) that goes over some stuff that might help. Also, this link (http://youtu.be/dvtddSKlyK8) might help add some flare to your game that I just found, and now I'm going to go try some of these submissions out this week.
Coincidentally I've just been looking at these techniques today. Here's the material I've found so far:
Ben's initial video is good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ZQNgG2hNc
But there have been improvements since that was filmed and I can't remember exactly where I saw it. Episode of MTS probably. From what I remember:
Ben changed his grip on the choke from S-Grip to Reverse-Gable.
I think Ben also said he's no longer pushing his left hand between his chest and his left thigh to complete the choke, instead he's reaching over his left shin and going through the hole between his calf and left thigh from the underside to connect the choke to his right hand.
What seems most impressive to me about this technique is that you can get passed on the right and you don't care. That seems amazing.
Another thing I noticed is that Ben's shoulders are very wide, and he seems to have considerable flexibility in them. I'm curious how necessary that is to make this series of techniques effective. You need good hip flexibility to play rubber guard, it looks to me like you need good shoulders to play Hindu.
I am curious how Hindu Control might translate to MMA. For starters the glove, acting like an anchor once you bury that right arm under the neck, and for another bare sweaty arms and chest would probably allow you to slide that right arm in much more easily. That pocket on the right that you are burying your arm into looks to be really tight. That seems to be what that Meathook setup is about, he's using it to rotate the opponent's chest and open up that pocket so he can swing his right arm in there. If it's a big sweaty meaty naked dude on top of you, that arm probably slips right in that pocket a lot easier.
Also in MMA I imagine you might be able to hide a serious glove-lock (not sure what it's called when you illegally hook your fingers into the wrist of your other glove). But could the ref even see that shit under all that stuff? Not that I endorse cheating, but you can bet that if you can get away with it some guys are going to :)
well I know what I'll be looking up on my lunch break :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
thx Brother!
Putting reps in on the hindulotine will do wonders. That's the best weapon from there in my opinion. But there are attacks with pop triangles, iscoceles triangles, stocks and dead orchard. If you've got long legs then you can lock dead orchard with the Hindu arm in (cutting off the far side carotid) and finish by punching into the other carotid like a gag reflex, I call it the Vishnu. Also having a good gunshow game can help, theres a sterno choke, x choke, and a rexangle from there. If you get caught being loose and they slip their head out from under your leg then you can play some gogo clinch, oprah/carni, hazelett/hazeleg type stuff. All that said, this is a Ben Eddie type of thread. Better yet, dig back in the forum and find his Hindu thread. Best of luck man!
There he is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Yelverton
I couldn't resist :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
Josh, Trey has told me a good bit about your Hindu control, I havent made it that way too much this year sad to say, but I would like to see it in person next time I come over that way
Appreciate all this 10th planet love!! I'm definitely gonna dig for the old thread Thanks!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Yelverton
Missed this thread earlier.
Yep, if nothing is working with hindu, I like to switch from hindu to gunshow. You're just switching hands on the foot basically so it's really easy to grab gun show when in hindu. I don't recommend going to gunshow if you are in hindu in new jersey or any position where you don't have full guard though because this can cause you to pull your foot to your chest and leave your knee behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
I can't envision the "dog show".
And you're right, being able to flow between the moves is a key point. It's nice to know 101 RG options, but if you can't flow between each of them smoothly, they won't do you any good. I often get lost in creating too many options for myself. It's more important to have a small path you are very good at, then a large path you are ok at.
Nice dive in, interesting stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
I pretty much just switch back and forth between a lot of grips. I basically just go with whatever I can get. I think I might actually have more hindulotine finishes with just a couple finger grip than anything else. The main thing is you grab the grip and then the choke happens when you lift your elbows up. You aren't squeezing. You are pointing your elbows to the sky and lifting which squeezes his neck between your leg and your grip. Sometimes it's a very light choke and so you have to just hold it for 15-20 seconds. Sometimes it's super tight. The nice thing about choking by lifting is it's really relaxed and easy. You could hold it for a minute and not burn out, so you just need to have the slightest of choke and then maintain it.
No I am grabbing the choke from my chest. I don't go through my leg. Some other guys have said they do, I haven't found it to be good for me though.
Yea, that is a real power to the move, they can go ahead and keep trying to pass. It's like a regular guillotine. The side the are passing on is the wrong side for them to relieve pressure. They would have to pass to the other side to relieve pressure, but they can't because my leg is there. So the only way they stop it is to fight the grip, which is the main defense you will run into is people defending the grip and tucking their chin.
You might be right about my shoulders. I have heard from a lot of people that they feel like their hindu control arm/shoulder has a kimura like pressure when they go into hindu. I have never felt any pressure on my shoulders. The hindu position feels very comfortable to me and I can stay relaxed there. This could be because of shoulder flexibility, my shoulders are very flexible, and I have a pretty long reach/wider shoulders for my height.
Would be interesting to see for MMA. I agree, it's much easier to get into hindu with slippery sweaty opponents. Opponents without a shirt who are sweaty are real easy to slip into hindu. But, I think the gloves would make it hard. It would likely be a lot easier for the opponent to defend the grip with gloves on.
Good stuff. I'm still waiting for someone to hit it in a tournament, so be the one who does :-).Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Yelverton
Yea, with both the Hindu and gunshow control, if you get a dead orchard it can be a choke before you even go for the arm if positioned right. I like the name "Vishnu". I'm going to have to keep on that same track of thinking for other hindu move names.
I was putting in some reps earlier today on hindu control and the gun show submissions, but I'm curious if its the shoulders or just the length that I was unable to really rotate my hips to get my leg over the head of my partner. What I mean is from the video I saw with "19 submission/transitions from closed guard" I noticed a lot of chokes from changing the angle of attack like you would for arm bar. I found it extremely difficult to do, but I the hindu control felt very comfortable, so I was unsure if it has to deal with flexibility or length or heck something else. After repping it lately though I do like it better than meathook though, and I cannot wait to use it while actually sparring to hopefully pulling it off in competition.