Granby problem

my problem is as follows

the school im at is predominantly gi .my 10th planet school no longer affiliated

Our coach , a good brown belt , is having an mma fight in the next month ( i know hardly any mma and virtually no experience as such ) , so we been working without the gi

I have been having success with butterfly guard and lockdown getting the sweeps etc from time to time

The problem begins when i get passed , as do all brown belts his top game is proper good and most of the sweeps and re guards that are generally successful aren't working that well .

So i been using marcelo garcia/ heisman type escape to recover and also turtle .

This turtle strategy is where im having problems.

My normal granby back to open guard is being countered as he stays on my hips with his hips ..... effectively im just getting to turtle and granby rolling and rolling back into side control... not where i want to be

Alternatively i have been attacking the hand which he controls my hip with ( the hip away from where he has his hip glued to mine )

Last night i got to turtle and tried that variety of granby /shoulder roll as demo d by frank barca in the warmups Granbys .I grabbed his wrist and did the shoulder roll . he rolled with me and rolled into a position where he had taken my back
I asked and he said because i had his wrist when i rolled he was compelled to roll as the pressure on his arm forced him too

Any idea about how to execute this type of granby better or in a more efficient fashion

Thanks Greg

Hi. I have not gave my back from turtle since 3 weeks ago. I want to share my mentality:
When you got into a turtle, there is a battle to avoid them to get into your side. Your head should point his chest it is much easier to recover guard. If you lost that fight and they are on your side, There is another battle. Not giving the seatbelt.if they still have the double under,you can apply cranbies but once they get control in one of your shoulders by a seatbelt, even you use an awesome granby it will end up in a dominant position like side control. You lost this battle as well? All you can do is recover a small quarter guard or a half guard if you are lucky. Turn into him not outside because his seatbelt controls you.Your last battle is avoiding his leg to get closer inside of your thighs. You lost this battle as well? You fucked up!
If you understand that 3 level of battles mentality, I believe that you will be a great turtle defender.

Osu!

Do you ever try forcefully rolling back towards him when you turtle? You can see it some on the Marcelo Garcia video? Also Ryan Hall talks a lot about the granby roll on the defensive guard instructional set he did. he explains that a lot of people just roll from shoulder to shoulder which makes it easier for people to stick to your hips or back out and pass to the other side as you roll. He advocates that a proper granby roll keeps your toes in connection with the mat so that at any point you can push off the mat to roll forward at any point during your granby roll. You'll notice Marcelo doing this. This might be obvious to you ad you may already be doing it. But it helped me a lot.

it's gi up until 1:48 and then no gi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6OGtQxi3Mg

Using granbys effectively against higher belts takes some high level mastery which includes the timing of your granbys. There's so many granbys to master.

Morning Mike

I havent tried this variation you mention ( forcefully rolling back towards your partner ) and im almost certain my toes loose contact with the mat .. im going to find someone and work on this

This clip is excellent mg makes it look so easy its almost frustrating to watch

Thanks very much for the advice .. ill do my best

Greg

Morning

Mastering granbys isn't easy i agree ..... I'm going to start by drilling the warmups A to death

Thanks

Greg