http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/1/18...from-ryan-hall
read this also^
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http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/1/18...from-ryan-hall
read this also^
http://livingthemartialarts.com/
Foreword: for more go to ^
My name is Ryan Hall. Some of you know me as a competitor, some as a guywho blinks a lot on DVDs, some as a friend, and some not at all.I write to you because awful things have taken place, both recently and long ago.Like all awful things, they must not be allowed to go unchecked; they must becombated not only in word, but in action. Some may suggest that I have no rightto comment or cast judgment on these things, asking who appointed me thearbiter of good taste. In response to this, I say that what follows is merely myopinion, but if my community cannot be counted on to meaningfully police itself on matters so painfully clear as these, then it is not a community I would like tobe a part of any longer.We must, as reasonable people, unite and do what we can to make sure that our words are not empty ones. Scorn and snarky comments on Internet forums arenot enough—they fade away and those who were not here to see them may oneday forget that these events ever occurred.I ask you to read this in its entirety and before deciding if it has any merit. Pleasedo not take my words at face value, as I am no oracle, nor do I have all or evenmany of the answers. Please consider them carefully, though, and ask yourself where you really stand, what you really believe. If you see what I see, though, if you feel as I feel, I beg you to raise your voice with me against a rising tide of poor behavior in our community.Please pardon me for repeating myself or meandering a bit during the course of this thing—it’s not the world’s most carefully crafted statement or an article that’smeant to neatly make a point and then call it a day. What follows is from theheart and is meant to cover everything I could remember from my past and asmuch as possible of my thoughts on the issues I see currently afflicting themartial arts community. I apologize in advance for taking up your time, but thankyou if you are able to put up with with what ended up being a deeply catharticexercise for me.I could have turned this into some blurb or snippet that would appeal to the shortattention span that plagues many of us, but I will not disrespect the suffering of those who have been victimized by doing anything less than my level best tomake crystal clear the fact that we in the Jiu-Jitsu and martial arts communitiesare at a critically important junction. The values and by extension, future, of our community hang in the balance and the direction of our next step is not to bechosen lightly.Every one of us has a dog in this fight.
Ryan Hall the fucking man!!! Not scared to speak out. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge
thx for sharing, I still need to get to the Gracie Univeristy breakdown video as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbChao
That sir is a terrific video. Touches on a LOT of things, like training room mentality etc etc. :-)
I'm only halfway through this....but it is powerful. He makes some great points man. I have a whole new respect for Ryan Hall. I'm glad he wrote this.
Thanks again JLB for bringing that good material.
more from Ryans pdf 'book' haha
You May Think You Know Your Coach, But You Probably Don’t
Smiling nicely and paying a kind word at an opportune moment does not a saint
make. Truth be told, some of the most outwardly charming, personable people I
have ever met hid a manipulative predator underneath their socially acceptable
mask. Predators have a way of being very chameleon-esque, altering everything
about themselves to fit in with society and escape notice until they strike. If you
could spot them from a mile away, they wouldn’t be very successful, now would
they? Though it would be great if they would make identifying them a simple
task, manipulative and amoral people do what they can to avoid acting out in
ways that are likely to be held against them publicly—if they didn’t, they’d be as
stupid as anything else, which would probably contribute to making them
somewhat less of a problem.
Throughout my entire martial arts career I have been both praised as a relatively
decent human being, and on some, thankfully less frequent occasions, been
accused of being a jerk. For a long time I was confused by this, as there are not
a great many people who know me on the close, personal level which would
allow for a real assessment. I often wondered why someone would call me a
great guy simply because I shook their hand, was polite, and didn’t attempt to rob
or bite them during the five minute window in which we interacted. I also
wondered why others would assume negative things of me when, to my
knowledge, I had never wronged them in any way.
What I came to realize is that we, as students of the martial arts, as people,
really, become deeply emotionally attached to the idea of a superhuman
individual or group of individuals who, in our minds, must possess privileged
knowledge that allows them not only to be an incredible fighter (Or politician? Or
pastor? Perhaps a high-profile university football coach?), but also a shining
example of humanity.
To put things in perspective, I believe that there may be 10 people at my
academy who actually know me well on a personal level. I would say that I am
uncharacteristically outspoken and approachable for a school owner, and
fraternize with my students more than most. That still makes 10 (including my
girlfriend of 6 years) out of over 250 individuals. How many of them would
violently defend me were I accused, with droves of evidence (perhaps even my
own admission of intent as well as the accusations of outright guilt by multiple
other people involved in the incident), of something heinous? Would they defend
my character (no matter how blindly), or, robbed of compelling arguments there,
would they stoop to attempts at discrediting my accusers by callously suggesting,
without a shred of evidence, that my victims somehow “asked for it.” Would they
ignore my history if it included numerous slimy moves and shady attempts at
manipulation (or times I coached others into doing the same)? With my whole
heart, I hope that the answers are “no” and “absolutely not.” I would be ashamed to be associated with people who possess such an absurdly weak grasp of right
and wrong, of decency. Then again, I don’t hold myself out as some sort of
oracle, nor do copies of books on how best to build a cult and manipulate the
trusting adorn the top of my desk.
When someone visits or enrolls at my academy, I am incentivized to be a nice
guy. It’s in my interest both professionally and personally. If you pay me for
classes and I provide a service to you, it does not follow logically that I am a
lovely human being. It simply means that I fulfilled our contract and did so in a
manner that is more likely than not to generate return business. Perhaps you’ll
stick around for a few years or more, we will share time and experience together,
develop a real friendship beyond the training room, and you will decide that I am
a person worthy of your respect. Or perhaps you’ll see things that make you
decide that I am not. Your decision should not be influenced by gifts I give you or
speeches I make, though. It should be based on those times you caught me
when I thought no one was looking. How did I act then? How do I handle my
employees, some of whom may have no recourse were I to mistreat them? Do
my interactions with them seem like an actual relationship or more like some tooperfect Truman Show re-run? Do they do a good job and operate professionally,
or does it extend to being at my beck and call like slaves?
The reality of life is that we are rarely faced anymore with situations in which it is
easy to see through to the truth of a person. The world of social media and
online interaction is an incredible evolution of technology, but in many ways, it
cheapens us as people. In the eyes of others, we become what we write in a
fixed number of characters, what we post on a Facebook wall, what we are called
by other people who themselves likely do not know us on anything approaching a
close, personal level. Can an individual truly be summed up in such a simplistic
fashion? What about professional marketers, professional athletes, public
figures of any kind? Can I even begin to know the character of someone who
crafts so carefully the face they show to the world? I would think that the
obvious answer is a resounding, “no.”
Times of difficulty and those moments when I believe I am untouchable reveal
my true character. Times when I hold power over you or others and there’s
nothing you can do about it. Do I hold myself accountable to a greater power of
any kind? To family or friends (if I have any)? When I err, do I face the music, or
do I scramble and attempt to obscure the truth?
Does it follow logically that one is “a great guy” or a “good man who helps
people” for delivering a product he was paid (financially or otherwise) to deliver
while simultaneously standing center stage and accepting praise for his actions?
How does the use of ill-gotten influence to create a pulpit from which to shower
gifts in an effort to gain favor with the trusting make one the modern-day
equivalent of Robin Hood? I would submit in both cases that it does not. Amoral
people in positions of influence are always adept at giving hand outs—it keeps the good guys in check because they’ve been bought and paid for.
If you want to know what kind of person I am, see what I do when I am starving,
but so are you. Here you will see the real me, not when I have a steak on my
plate but am willing to toss you the bone while posing for a photo.
Never judge a man by what he can do for you (even worse, what he tells you he
can do for you)—it is a certain path to a poor assessment.
An Open Letter to the Martial Arts Community
“The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at
any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living, and the get
rich quick theory of life.”
-- Theodore Roosevelt
Hello everyone.
Over the past week, certain revelations have come to light about awful,
subhuman behavior on the part of a number of members of our community, some
of whom I know personally.
The worst of this is certainly the work of some truly reprehensible individuals who
seem to think that they have the right to destroy the dignity and innocence of
others in the pathetic service of their own desires. Some of them will hopefully
bear the full brunt of the justice system’s penalty for the atrocities they have
committed. Others may not be liable to judgment at the hands of the courts, but
should in no way be excused for their own disgusting acts both past and recent.
Somewhat less grievous, but still staggering in its absurd level of insensitivity,
cultish wagon circling, and revolting lack of perspective has been the response of
certain individuals who feel the need to blindly defend the actions of those with
whom they are associated. I cannot say for certain if this is born out of some sort
of woefully misguided sense of loyalty or if it is simply the basest act of selfpreservation, aimed at protecting a reputation built on the connection to someone
discovered to be wholly disreputable. Regardless, I would think that the vast
majority of people should agree that their behavior is beyond repulsive not only
its dismissiveness of the suffering of the victims involved in this debacle, but also
in their staunch refusal to exercise the analytical portion of their brains and
reason for themselves in anything other than a completely self-serving manner.
Making matters worse, some who would consider themselves “good” people are
remaining silent, either unable or unwilling to put integrity over solidarity and
financial interest. They have looked on passively as their associates have
scrambled to cover their tracks, to duck and dodge inquiry into matters so grave
that they demand a response. Disappointing. Many will hide behind the “I wasn’t
there, it’s not my place to say anything” defense. This is a completely
unacceptable stance given the information in evidence. Their reluctance to act speaks volumes about either their weak character or their already being under
some level of mental control.
It has been correctly noted over the course of history that all that is necessary for
evil to thrive is the indifference or inaction of otherwise decent people. Are we
really willing to accept this truth and still remain seated?
As someone who has occupied a number of roles and stations in the martial arts
community since I first became involved with it, I believe that I may be able to
shed some light on why things are progressing as they are, as well as provide a
cautionary tale for others who I hope will be able to avoid the pitfalls that I often
plunged face-first into due to my naïvely trusting in the good (or at the very least
neutral) intentions of the people over top of me.
i like Ryan but damn that's a long & boring read
Ryan Hall
Final Thoughts
Integrity, the connective tissue of one’s soul, should not be a salable commodity.
Once it has been tendered, it is likely gone forever. It can be pursued after the
fact, but like attempting to repair a shattered vase, it is a highly difficult task and
rarely is the remake an adequate substitute for what was once whole. Nothing is
worth your integrity. Not success, not money, not fame. Nothing. Any person
who asks you to compromise it, no matter the justification, is both morally and
ethically bankrupt.
I often wonder what I would be doing right now were I still a part of my old group.
I would have compromised my values so many times that I would be a different
man, someone I doubt I would recognize. Would I too be blindly defending
actions of people I am associated with simply because we wear the same patch,
doing whatever is necessary in my mind to absolve my guru, and by extension,
his disciples, of responsibility for their actions? Would I finally look myself in the
mirror, as I once did, and be so disgusted with my reflection that I wouldn’t know
what to do? Or would I simply keep my head down and keep pushing towards
something so completely insignificant when compared to the price I was paying
spiritually? I honestly don’t know.
Otherwise reasonable people who are in desperate situations often do desperate
things. Things like turning to someone peddling a magical fix to their problems.
Things like believing that the martial arts are an acceptable tool to use to enrich
one’s self at the expense of the uninformed. Things like aggressively and
creatively imagining scenarios in their mind that suspend the facts and allow
them to continue living in their insular, “haters gonna hate” imaginary world
where neither they nor their master are accountable to anything or anyone for the
things they do, the things that are done in their name.
In the past I would have felt only fury at such hideous and reprehensible
behavior, but now I feel an equal amount of pity for the desperate individuals who
are too weak to admit to themselves what they surely are sensing in their hearts.
If there was ever any need for evidence that the martial arts world is at least as
frail and human (often the negative parts of that word) as everywhere else, there
is surely none left now.
Regardless of what some people may attempt to lead us to believe, the ends do
not justify the means. Please, never forget it. No matter how many times it is
repeated, failing (allegedly, depending on which story is to be believed) in an
attempt to do something awful beyond words in no way makes the perpetrator a
better man than he would have been had he succeeded in completing his task.
An attempted murderer is no better than a successful one—he’s just a worse
shot. Intent is the foundation of character, ladies and gentlemen.
Even knowing what I know now, I, too, was almost foolish enough to stay quiet.
Due to the proximity I have to some of the principals of a current horror story
(subhuman or just grossly misguided, depending on the individual) and the public
perception of the nature of my past with them, I had hoped others would speak
out and my voice would not be needed. Only a few did, but those who were
brave enough to offer their thoughts did so eloquently and forcefully, standing up
for what they believe in, what they know to be right. Others bravely and correctly
took their leave from affiliation with individuals whom they could no longer in
good conscience support. I would be ashamed to let them stand alone.
Sometimes it seems like justice has left the world, like it is only for some, and
even then only when the stars align properly. I believe this is because the
average person thinks it is someone else’s job to keep bad behavior in line. I
dispute that. We all have a responsibility to do the right thing, to see that good
people are supported and negativity squashed as often as it can be. A man once
said to me, “Ryan, as long as people feel like they got what they wanted, that’s
enough for me.” That line of thinking was as broken then as it is now.
If I stick my head in the sand when I hear something ugly, I am complicit in the
ugliness. It is my business to know with whom I am dealing. This is not only our
community—it is our world. The version of it we pass on to our children will
greatly depend on the actions we take before they arrive. Would we have them
live in one where people who dodge justice continue on to foster poisonous
attitudes in their disciples—the same disciples who accuse victims of “asking for
it” or being a “dirty whore” because they are too scared to brave the world without
the security blanket of their equally misguided buddies’ approval? I should think
not.
Don’t buy into the materialistic, morally vacant way of life that is peddled to us
each day by media and advertisers. Be something more. Be the change you
want to see in the world. There is nothing wrong with having a balanced
worldview and values that are not dominated by ego gratification and selfaggrandizement. Twitter followers and Facebook likes do not validate your
existence. Your actions in the world, not your tournament victories or opponents
defeated in a game of wrestling determine your value as a person. Don’t allow
yourself to be seduced into believing that there is something wrong with an
individual who holds more dearly their dignity than their medals, than their bank
account.
Teachers: A true leader creates other leaders. He desires not to dominate those
around him, but to uplift them. Not to uplift them for his own benefit, his own
aggrandizement, but because it is the right thing to do. A real leader doesn’t
want disciples. A real leader hopes for friends who respect him for being a
decent human being above all. After all, what other reason is there to follow
someone?
Students: Trust your gut. We all have an internal compass that pushes us in the
right direction, that guides to where we are supposed to be. Listen to it. Do not
permit yourself to pull a gold medal high beam routine to justify staying in a place
or with a person when your intuition tells you something isn't right. I did once for
too long and still bear the scars.
Cultists: You may become angry with me, attempt to assassinate my character,
question my right to speak, accuse me of lying, or even threaten me. One day,
though, I hope you will grow emotionally enough to find the perspective you need
to see how shameful and weak, though still painfully understandable, your
behavior is. If you do, please find the strength to tell your story to others so that
they may be spared the mistakes you’ve made.
If these words have touched you in some way and you want to act but don’t know
how to proceed, here are some suggestions:
1. Learn:
Familiarize yourself with the news stories that are circulating and the
associated commentary. Visit a website like http://www.rainn.org to learn
more about the real effects of sexual assault on individuals, on families, on
society. Read up on cult behavior. Forewarned is forearmed.
2. Pay attention:
If you have a sneaking suspicion that some of what I have said applies to
you or your training situation—or anywhere else in your life, for that
matter—face the discomfort instead of rationalizing it away. Pay attention
to how you feel and to how people are acting. Consider how consistent
these feelings and actions are with what you know to be right and wrong.
3. Ask:
If you aren’t sure anymore that you know what’s right and what’s wrong,
get a reality check about your situation, from people outside your
academy. Whom do you have access to who is known to have integrity?
Be honest: would your grandmother be proud of the place you call your
martial arts home? Even solicit the opinions of people you have
considered “haters” in the past. Be open to their comments. (The fact
that it will be incredibly difficult to do so means you’re on the right track.)
4. Stand up:
Make sure your actions support your words. If you see inappropriatebehavior or wrongdoing, name it and tell those in question that you insist
on better, from everyone around you, including yourself. Say it as often as
necessary and follow up with corresponding behavior. If changes are not
made, have the conviction to act, to associate only with those who you
can respect for their integrity.
5. Find support:
It will not be easy or fun to address these issues. Don’t do it alone. Find
others, either in or outside of the group, who can assure you of your
sanity. Do not let doubts and fears derail you. Your soul may hang in the
balance.
6. Provide support:
If you have a strong moral compass, a supportive social system of which
your team is ONE part, and a healthily balanced life, pay it forward to
someone who may not be there yet. Provide perspective, discretion, and
encouragement.
7. Keep perspective:
No matter how important the activities we participate in may seem, they
will never be a substitute for the truly valuable things in life: character,
friends, and family—the people who will love and care for you
unconditionally, regardless of how much money you’re making them, how
many tournaments you’re winning, or how carefully you obey their edicts.
Anyone willing to encourage a rift between you and those who truly love
you obviously does not have your best interests at heart.
In closing, I will stay true to classic form (familiar to those of you who have had to
suffer through me teaching a class) and repeat myself: the martial arts
experience, as well as life in general, is not some sort of zero sum, winner take
all game. It is not me versus you wherein I get mine while the getting is good
and justify my actions by convincing myself that you would have done the same
to me were you given the chance. It is about attempting to live rightly, growing
as a person, treating others as you would hope to be treated. It’s me versus me
in my struggle to be a better, stronger person—the kind of person who can help
others along their path the same way that good people have helped me on mine.
Never, ever, let anyone convince you otherwise.
Proud to be a part of the 97%,
Ryan Hall
http://livingthemartialarts.com/wp-c...ommunity-2.pdf
Have to say, very well written indeed. :-)
Wow...I have to say...that has made me change my perspective on LI!
None of this is LI fault. Personal responsibility lies on those who committed to action. This is like blaming the guy who sold me a knife because I stabbed someone.
That's overlooking his involvement in the gangbang (rape) of a 17 year old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
That is a different thing altogether that occurred years ago. LI should be grls accountable for his actions then, not for the actions of others now. I seriously doubt he has a " how to rape class on sat"Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
actually he does
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
I'm injured right now, and this hurt post hurt like hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Perez
Damn you Eric..
maybe this will be funny in awhile. . . . for now it made me cringe, too soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Perez
Well shit I got nothing....Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Perez
I don't think you're familiar with what happened. I'll post some sources so you can check the evidence yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
The 1989 victim in the gang rape case testified that Lloyd Irvin raped her while another man named Gatling was orally sodomizing her. Lloyd Irvin used the defense that he wanted to have sex with her, but that he was impotent. The jury did not convict him, because they weren't sure that the victim could be sure Lloyd penetrated her since the room was so dark and her vision was impaired from the oral sodomy. Everyone else that was charged was sent to prison, although there were likely several other men that participated that were never charged, the victim said it was 7-10 men, and I believe 5 went to prison. Even if Lloyd did not rape her, he himself testified that he would have had he been able to get erect. This brings us to Ryan Hall's point about a person convicted of attempted 1st degree murder is no better than someone convicted, the only difference is that the gun jammed.
For those that would imply that that it was consensual group sex, well, the physician thought differently, as did 4 separate juries that looked at the case. The woman was threatened to be thrown off the balcony, and she had bruises on her face and a busted lip from being punched.
This might not have even been discovered, but the day after the arrests Lloyd uploaded all these old rape prevention seminar testimonials. People thought it was to profit off of the tragedy on New Year's Eve. it was worse. He was trying to manipulate the Google rankings with SEO so that people would not find his old case.
Check out http://www.lloydirvinrapeexposed.com/
Also here are some old articles.
http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-...rape-case-girl
http://articles.dailypress.com/1991-...arrant-charged
http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-...en-young-woman
http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-...e-case-two-men
http://articles.dailypress.com/1991-...ton-university
http://articles.dailypress.com/1991-...orm-room-trial
That's good and well (and fucked up) all I'm saying is that LI isn't responsible nor should be connected with the recent rape perpetrated by his students. Unless he is training them to go rape women...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Nall
I just don't know how people can train under a person that could either do this back then or let it be done. "Martial artists" should protect people. Character doesn't change over time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
Ok I understand why YOU wouldn't train with LI but I still don't see how he has anything to do with the actions of his students.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Madsen
What makes it worse for him besides his history is that as far as I know he still hasn't made any statement on it? I mean Ryan Hall and The Gracies have so you would of figured he would by now if he was going to. I've been keeping up with this as I lurked on The UG.
He said something on Facebook that basically was like this is bad but I'm staying neutral. It was very ambiguous he is trying to stay neutral because all parties involved are his students. That is his prerogative. I mean the community has really already judged what happened in who was right ir wrong and guilty but Lloyd Irvin is trying to stay neutral it seems in the whole thing. At least that's the message I gathered based on his Facebook post that he made about it the day after it happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Savage
But like I said 1,000,000 times this really doesn't have anything to do with Lloyd Irvin other than that students train him.
See he addressed the NYE incident but he lied in it, he said that it involved 3 students on his comp team. it didn't. The victim was a new white belt and she wasn't on any comp team. Regardless, I agree it was ambiguous, he said that she was "allegedly harmed" and he has since removed the post. Shit, his Facebook account has pretty much been down the entire past week, and it's down right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
More importantly, when people say he hasn't made a statement, they mean he has not addressed his old rape case. THAT is what people want him to make a statement about. His silence is deafening. Hell, he didn't even confirm that he was or wasn't the Lloyd E. Irvin in the old case until DJ Jackson posted on Facebook that it was him in an argument with Chloe Cornelius.
Another issue I have is Lloyd is right in the middle of 3 generations of rapists/pedophiles (his teacher, him, his pupils). Some fucking coincidence that eh? Rapists attract? I just don't know what to think about that? :-(
Lloyds silence does indeed speak volumes. Mainly because his actions since the news broke have been repulsive. No shame at all. I hope his whole 'team' aka cult disbands on him asap! Its disgusting! So when I hear Wilson, Nakaphan and Jared have left (which also speaks volumes by the way), it makes me very happy. :-)
I was actually talking about both when I was talking about making a statement, so thanks for clearing that up. I've also read something about Keenan blocking his family after the thing between them and Avellan, but I'll try to find the post on The UG.
Ok, nevermind about the facebook block someone said his dad was still on his friends list.
O thank god.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Savage
it has to do with lloyd because these types of characteristics and mindsets are passed down from the top. his instructor had these problems, he had these problems, and now his students have these problems. as far as legality is concerned, no, he has absolutely nothing to do with the events of that night. but as martial artists should we just stand by and watch as he degrades one of the most pure things we know? absolutely not. in my opinion he should be done.