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What's up guys, so I was rolling with one of the instructors of a local gym a few weeks back and his knee popped while I had him in lockdown, since then he has banned it and I was wondering has anyone one else come across the same problem?
Of course I have to respect his rules but my whole half guard game is lockdown based, I guess I'm just looking for your guys thoughts on the matter and get some advice on how to overcome it.
Thanks in advance.
Personally I would be looking for somewhere else to train.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Garry
Well, one can understand banning a technique you think is dangerous... And one could see how one would conclude a technique is dangerous if it pops your knee out... that being said If his knee pops out from lockdown Id hate to see how he held up against someone reppin leglocks or even someone exploding through his guard or etc...
+2Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Garry
It would be one thing if he requested you to not use it against him due to an injury/physical issue with his knee, but to ban it completely seems bizarre.
really he can ask you not to do it, but ban, i think was too much, i always use it , including in Gi competitions .
Cheers for the input guys, he's a really nice guy, great coach and a much better jiu jitsu player than myself, just feel that banning moves is a slippery slope.
Use this as an opportunity to grow your game and force yourself to learn more techniques that do not require the lockdown or figure out other ways to play the half guard game. Always grow your game, don't get stuck in having to use a certain technique from certain positions. Just my 2 cents
Maybe talk to him privately. Invite him out for a beer...free beer always makes people listen. Ask him if he has knee issues etc. Explain that you've never had an issue like this before. I know some people will tap from pressure on the calf etc, but for the knee to pop out...wow. I mean I have dislocated my knee cap 2X and I've been in the lockdown and so far my knee has stayed in place.
Did he try to roll out of it funny? Did his foot stay still and his leg twist? Just some questions to look at the situation from more angles.
MTS 73 features a young gentleman getting his knee popped en route to being subbed by Electric chair, and Rogan speaks of getting his leg screwed up while in LD. It rarely happens but it does happen. I don't think it's okay to ban any move, because of a misunderstanding of the technique via injury, but he is an instructor, so you gotta respect him. By respect him I mean leave the school and find a place where people know how to escape LD.
Are there any other banned moves?
Banning the Lockdown makes no sense, it's a basic move that anyone can do and it's being used at all belt levels around the world.There are other techniques that are way more dangerous and can potentially inflict more damage for ex the Guillotine can end someone's existence yet we still practice it and people get put to sleep all the time or armbars peoples arms get jacked all the time we still don't ban them. It makes more sense for him to ask you not to do it to him while his knee is hurt. In the long run that rule hurt him, you, and the academy as a whole.
^LOL @Wancarlos. Yeah, you gotta respect the lock down. It's called that for a reason. It's a shame because he's limiting himself and his students. One day it's likely that his students will encounter guys who play lockdown and they'll get beat because he refused to learn and teach it. But that's on him. For you, you have to decide how important your BJJ journey is. To be honest, since the lockdown is a pretty big part of my game, it'd be hard to stay at a school that banned it.
Makes sense if he has injured his knee and doesn't want you to use lockdown on it in fear of hurting it further (then again why is he rolling in the first place).
What I've noticed though is that people get injured in the lockdown because they think that they can just power through it, this is especially true when a higher belt goes against a lower one, happened at a gracie barra school where I train at once a week, a purple belt thought he could slip his leg through as I went reverse lockdown and then something popped in his knee, I still felt bad though all the same lol
We don't allow the heel hook for rolling in class but we do drill it. It is a sure way to blow out the acl. My left knee has been sore a few weeks so the rg will just have to wait unless a miracle happens and I get a free New York. I wish I was better at the weak side rg.. Muddy waters don't hurt the sore knees as much but I got to have a ninja roll going to get that transition....peace
Banning the lockdown is doing his students a disservice. Having you there to throw different techniques at them is invaluable to long term development. At any type of competition/fight someone will be able to use lockdown and it would be much better for them to have experienced it in the gym first before a competition setting. Sometimes peoples knees pop because they resist the sweep so hard when they should just roll over. Too much base, somethings gotta give. Maybe he should check his ego?
I was asked not to do lockdown at a school before. Its common. I didn't stay at that school very long. If you want to progress though your 10th planet journey, with 10th planet moves, you have to make a change happen or leave places like that. It never ends with banning one thing. You have to make the decision; do you want to stay with this "nice" instructor and become a collar grabbing, cookie cutter grappler that he's trying to produce or do you want something else? If you want something else, you may have to leave. You can try talking to him first and letting him know how important this is to you and that he is banning a move that is legal in white belt kids brackets where subs aren't even legal. Best of luck to you brother!
I was asked not to do Electric Chairs at one school before. It is all up to you, man. You can either try to adapt to their rules or move on and find a different gym.
I'm curious though. How did the knee pop? Evil rainbow? Bad attempt at passing? Failed lockdown break?
I totally agree coach, I guess I just wanted some reassurance, cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DENNY PROKOPOS
It happened very much like in the MTS episode except I hadn't begun to evil rainbow, just by him trying to rip out of it, we both had gi pants on so it gets pretty tight.
yeah and can't the de la Riva mess up the guy's knee but no one has a problem with people using that?
sounds like germany is having a good effect on you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ohio2berlin
People are scared of what they don't understand. The guy may have been ignorant to the technique, unfortunately was one of the unlucky ones to get injured from it, got his knee popped and assumed it would happen to everyone.
But yeah, as Denny said, he's hurting the whole school by not allowing it.
So he gets hurt trying to escape the lockdown without properly setting up an escape route? I'm assuming he didn't try to pin your leg with the butterfly like for a no-hands pass/dominator or hit a buttocks compressor, right? This makes me sad for him and his students: he didn't react properly to a legit move, and now he will never look at it again because "its a dangerous move". If your leg is tightly wrapped up, of course you are going to get hurt if you don't set up your escape with a proper technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory McCann
Things in jiu jitsu are only dangerous in proportion to your ignorance to them.
I couldn't roll at a school that banned the lockdown.
I agree with many of the above. I've seen quite a few knees pop in lockdown. 95% of those pops are self inflicted. When I'm caught in a deep lockdown ill often concede the sweep and attempt to salvage guard. Top position isn't worth your knee and bottom guard is better than bottom side.
If you try to escape the lockdown by just spazzing out like an idiot, you may pop a joint. The same is true of knee bars, arm bars, shoulder locks, guillotines, and all kinds of other things everyone does. When you're caught in a lockdown you can't disrespect the danger you're in; when people want to ban it, I tend to think it's because they don't *want* to respect it. They don't want to be noobs with regard to it. They don't want to have to learn something they suck at. Even though it's perfectly possible to train it safely with a modicum of understanding. Kinda like TKD and head punches.
It's the first step into McDojo country. I wouldn't go to a place like that long-term.
It was probably a freak accident. We had a new guy try to put lockdown on me once and when he stretched the lockdown he hyper extended my knee. It took like 6 months for my knee to recover. Not sure how it happened exactly. I might have been on my side slightly or something getting ready to pass or pressure in who knows. Never happened again.
Didn't Joe Rogan's knee blow from the same situation?
Tough one - I'd rather be educated on it because it's not like it will be banned from competition.
Lockdown can calf slice and can hurt the knee. I've felt it a couple of times. Think its just a mismatch of body types/length of legs etc.
I personally wouldnt ban it. Are heel hooks banned?
I had one guy pop his knee when in my LD, but he had a bad knee already and he rolls way too hard so of course he spazzed out when I had him in it and pop! I felt bad about it though and now I just don't use it on him which is fine, good practice anyway to open up other options in my game. In general if I'm at a school that doesn't get the lockdown I just use it very carefully so no one gets hurt but yet they have a chance to feel it and get used to how to defend it. banning it would seem a bit extreme but if you like the school a lot then I'd hang and see if you can change their minds over time, this worked for me at one gym I trained at where they originally didn't want me doing any RG or LD and now they are ok with both.
I LOVE Lockdown !!!! I've had the knee pop on a few people while I had them in it. They all were trying to do knee slicing to escape, ive learned to not let their knee get too far over and I just reset to my back, or i let go and restart because I know my lockdown sure can hurt,lol. I always preach buttock kompresor because people always try to stay up top and fight the momentum instead of flowing with it.