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Lately I've been getting obsessed with the honey hole, and having pretty decent success finishing with the inside heel hook and texas clover leaf. Naturally, my training partners have been getting keen to the defense and figure fouring their legs off of my entries. What do you guys do here? It's become stall city for me.
Straight ankle lock the outside leg would probably be the most typical goto.
there are at least 8-10 submissions off of that position. even better if they cross their legs (the inside heal hook is actually my last option). It all starts with you getting a hold of the farside leg thats protecting the heal.
Grain of salt because I've only hit this on another white belt one time, but I got the idea from Vinny Magalhaes/Chris Herzog. It's kind of hard to explain, but basically control the top leg by the toes with your far hand, and base up so you can sit up into sort of a russian cowboy/capoeira cowboy position. Then you can toe hold that top leg. Or, they defend the toe hold and untangle their legs for you so you can snatch up the kneebar. But step one is just to sit yourself up into that russian cowboy position.
Here's a video for reference. Skip to 1:29.
http://youtu.be/f2VnYMSRh-0
The leg position is very similar to the honey hole. The main thing is that you have one leg between both of their legs. The main difference is where the hips are. In honey hole you're off to the side. In the capoeira cowboy your hips are on top. But the legs are pretty much in the same configuration. If I'm wrong to use this counter, let me know. But the actual attacks that Vinny shows here are very high percentage for me. Like stupid easy. So any time my leg is in between their legs and their legs are figure 4'd, I'm going for this.
He went over this at a seminar, Garry Tonon also showed something similar but falling to the opposite leg side. Back saddle variants.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
The best resource I have found on these positions was something Zog recommended years ago, Mastering the Saddle by Scott Sonnon.
At the end of Zogs Cap Cowboy/quarter guard killer video he shows the Texas cloverleaf and the version Scott Yockel does from there. That's what I would do. So even if they triangle their legs, get into that deep honey hole stacking your feet (yockel) or foot on the hip (Zog)Quote:
Originally Posted by hespectnogi
Vinny showed us a lot of good stuff on that trip I recommend watching the whole series. Used it quite a bit.
What do you guys think of this? Found it poking around Reilly Bodycomb's youtube page.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRYXb8_5FSw&list=PL4FF463014C27DA75&index= 40
It, as with pretty much all of reillys stuff is super legit ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by hespectnogi
Absolutely legit
Just the figure four or pummeling the trapped leg out is not enough against good leg players. If they have your free leg they will just jump on that one after you free the trapped one.
https://youtu.be/snAHcgkUhqo Have a Honey Sandwich!!
There's no shortage of options when they cross their legs but I like to look for a deep hook with my arm and a little hip scoot to transition to Zogs sub from their knee bar defense. (Around 5:37 of this video). If they defend and kick the foot off, the knee bar is there as Zog shows or turn back to the honey hole.
https://youtu.be/NvCz9Rb04ao?t=5m37s
You may have addressed it but my phone audio isn't working. Why is he crossing his feet the way that would give you the kneebar or honey sandwich?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Wallner
Why not just heel hook?
No one is going to defend the kneebar by putting their leg you are attacking on top like that. It is actually giving up the kneebar, rather than defending it. Like Sean mentioned the inverted heel hook is there as well, which is arguably the best submission in that position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Wallner
The best option that makes perfect sense to me is book a Herzog seminar;)
I wouldnt attack a far side kimura from spiderweb if he didnt defend the arm I was trying to armbar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
Attachment 3326Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dewitt Jr
I know right, it hurt my brain trying to say it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
Yeah could you guys enlighten me and translate your philosophical black belt jedi mind shit to blue belt friendly language?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dewitt Jr
Lol he's saying that if he's in spiderweb, and the guy isn't properly defending the armbar, he's not going to ignore the armbar to go for the far side kimura. And he said that because in the honey sandwich, there's a more readily available sub in the heel hook since the opponent isn't defending properly.
Hard to tell via text but I think hespect was being sarcasticQuote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
Lol yeah I was goofing. That knee bar seems like the highest percentage counter so far but I'm still trying to smooth it out
LOL my bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
Look at it this way; you improved your own understanding of the situation by breaking it down into simple terms!Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
:) True.
Better than most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Campagnola
This thread got a little derailed with that nonsense.
Hespect did you work through your issue and find a good option?
Yes sir! Threatening the far side straight ankle lock then scooping under the trapped leg when they extend for the texas clover leaf has worked pretty well for me. Cutting the angle for the knee bar is a little bit tougher than I anticipated
If you use that texas cloverleaf correctly you can turn it into a kneebar/ankle lock/ calf slice. Its a really nasty submission and one of my favorites from that position.