Wrestling for MMA. Thoughts??

Hey all...I was wanted to see if i could your thoughts on how important you think wrestling is for MMA. I have heard Joe Rogan say that he thinks wrestling is the most important sport you can do if you want to have a career in MMA. Is it because wrestling teaches a more aggressive style of grappling (vs. BJJ which can be somewhat methodical and slow at times). Is it because wrestling teaches you to never be on your back?? Is it the takedowns?? Does wrestling make your Jiu-Jitsu better?? Is it a better sport to train in than BJJ if you want to have an MMA career???

Thoughts....

Yes, Yes, Yes, No, NO!!!!!!!!!

Yeh i agree that wrestling is very important , i think if people from a wrestling background work more on their very few subbmission which are very difficult to pull off get a little bit more submission deffense from jui jitsu i thinks thats all wrestlers really need jui jitsu defense!!

the way i see it.....you get striking from the feet,jui-jitsu from the ground and wrestling neatly fills the gap inbetween.all the beautiful peices of the mma puzzle,all as important as one another. :-)

Wrestling is a must. period

I think its more about control. A good wrestler can dictate where the fight actually takes place. If a decent wrestlers want to take the fight to the ground he can do so. If he wants to keep it standing he can use his wrestling to keep it there. Its a very valuable and versatile set of skills to have, not to mention it teaches great work ethic even at a young age. I agree with Joe defiantly the best base for MMA

Take downs are much more important than overall wrestling. Good wrestlers tend to be very tough mentally, but the ones who do well in MMA are the guys who had an aggressive take down attack in college/international comp. The guys who were leg riders or more methodical dont tend to have the same success.

As stated Takedowns are very important because you can dictate where the fight takes place. Also as mentioned, it gives people good kinestetic awareness and great hips, and training is free in schools in the US.

I think however, something that gets left out of this topic, is its not like simply wanting to be good at wrestling is the reason we see the former wrestlers in MMA. Most of them were Division 1 wrestlers, alot of them conference champs and several all americans or D1 champs. There is alot more to just wanting to be good at wrestling to being in a top D1 program. I think the fact guys who are at that level are also fantastic athletes, because you simply wont get to that level without being one, and that gets left out of the debate a whole lot.

Its not as if guys who wrestled all through grade school and HS go into top level MMA and dominate with their wrestling. I also feel, if BJJ and submission grappling had the same talent pool to draw from (regarding wrestling is very common, and widely available, and in some state a religion) and the same amount of time to train people (from age 4 in many states) and to focus from an early age with takedowns, the wrestling pedigrees might not mean as much.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

I think its more about control. A good wrestler can dictate where the fight actually takes place. If a decent wrestlers want to take the fight to the ground he can do so. If he wants to keep it standing he can use his wrestling to keep it there. Its a very valuable and versatile set of skills to have, not to mention it teaches great work ethic even at a young age. I agree with Joe defiantly the best base for MMA

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Exactly...

Good wrestling will let you dictate where the fight goes.....if you suck at subs, you can keep it on the feet if you suck on the feet, you can take the guy down, control position and beat him up, if you suck at subs and striking, you prob shouldnt be fighting mma, or you could always do the take down and run, take down and run to score points w the judges :)

I was not a big believer at first...but after watching a couple of practices I am really starting to see how it can be used effectively in MMA (mostly for the reasons that you guys are mentioning). My daughter joined the wrestling team at school. She has never wrestled before and i was pretty torn on her doing this (maybe im just old fashioned). Her ultimate goal is to fight MMA and so she decided to give it a shot (she was getting recruited pretty hard and could use the help on her feet...plus its 5 months of free training for her). I give her credit for not giving a shit what anyone else at her school says...but i wasnt exactly sure how it would help her in MMA considering she already trains in submission wrestling.
I'm definately starting to see how it can help now. It instills a great work ethic (shes in incredible shape right now) and these guys are going full speed the entire match...really helps you maintain control of the opponent...and the takedowns are huge as well...just wanted to get the thoughts of the group...and I think we agree.

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Originally Posted by stlnl

There is alot more to just wanting to be good at wrestling to being in a top D1 program. I think the fact guys who are at that level are also fantastic athletes, because you simply wont get to that level without being one, and that gets left out of the debate a whole lot.

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Funny...when i went to school the wrestling team was all the meatheads who weren't athletic enough to make the basketball team...lmao.

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Originally Posted by VJ Bella

Funny...when i went to school the wrestling team was all the meatheads who weren't athletic enough to make the basketball team...lmao.

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What Collegiate Division 1 program was this at?

Nah not div1...hs..obviously the d-1 guys got skills.

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Originally Posted by VJ Bella

Nah not div1...hs..obviously the d-1 guys got skills.

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Then why on earth did you bother with a comment from High school after quoting what I was saying about D1 wrestlers?

Relax dude...I was makin a joke...try not to take this shit so seriously.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

I think its more about control. A good wrestler can dictate where the fight actually takes place. If a decent wrestlers want to take the fight to the ground he can do so. If he wants to keep it standing he can use his wrestling to keep it there. Its a very valuable and versatile set of skills to have, not to mention it teaches great work ethic even at a young age. I agree with Joe defiantly the best base for MMA

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+1

But with that being said though, I do also think that wrestling takedowns in MMA are overrated. I you get the takedown, good, you dictated where the fight is going. But if you can't use any passes and or controls to either ground and pound seriously or submit, then it should barely hit the scorecards.

MMA Wrestlers who turn the fight into a wrestling match are missing the point. Wrestling is a good base, but Jiu jitsu and striking are what make the sport.

Im with you sam...i dont like watching the wrestlers fight...I think they are boring. That being said...if you cant get a takedown you really cant use your jiu jitsu...so i think its definately a good skill to have to keep your opponent on the ground (control).

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Originally Posted by VJ Bella

Im with you sam...i dont like watching the wrestlers fight...I think they are boring. That being said...if you cant get a takedown you really cant use your jiu jitsu...so i think its definately a good skill to have to keep your opponent on the ground (control).

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You can still score a good takedown without wrestling.....my favrite is the Over Hand Left or Head Kick :)

Yes, my favorite takedown is also the knockdown ;)

Wrestling is basically Lawyers. You have to have it, because the other party has it. If both parties showed up in court with no lawyers and presented their cases to the judge or jury it would be even ground however if one party brings a lawyer, it usually ends up being a lopsided decision. Same with wrestling, Paul Daley Scott Smith fight, both parties show with no lawyers, Daley KTFOs Smith. Daley vs Koschek, Kosh brings his lawyer with him, lays on top of Daley while talking shit to his ears for all 3 rounds which Daley loses his temper which costs him the fight and his UFC career, sounds familiar? :)

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

I think its more about control. A good wrestler can dictate where the fight actually takes place. If a decent wrestlers want to take the fight to the ground he can do so. If he wants to keep it standing he can use his wrestling to keep it there. Its a very valuable and versatile set of skills to have, not to mention it teaches great work ethic even at a young age. I agree with Joe defiantly the best base for MMA

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+1

A good wrestler will also have exellent ground control and with a basic understanding of some submissions can have a very dominating top game in mma or jiu jitsu. I wrestled folk/greco/and freestyle for 8 years before i got into jits and the mat time from that alone allowed me to dominate and control alot blue and purple belts right off the bat. The typical wrestling practice lasts 3 to 5hours and takes place 5 days a week plus most programs also add in a weight training program on top of those practices, that is alot of time spent grappling, more so then your average jiu jitsu classes. The problem with wrestlers transitioning into MMA or Jiu-Jitsu is that if they aren't open minded, they will just stick with the same game and never evolve. They'll use the same strstegy of get the takedown then use the same choke or kimora that they always use over and over and since it's successful they will delay evolving their game, especially their bottom game. I belive wrestling is a necessity for MMA and can only improve someones jits game.

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Originally Posted by Sam Bergeron

+1

But with that being said though, I do also think that wrestling takedowns in MMA are overrated. I you get the takedown, good, you dictated where the fight is going. But if you can't use any passes and or controls to either ground and pound seriously or submit, then it should barely hit the scorecards.

MMA Wrestlers who turn the fight into a wrestling match are missing the point. Wrestling is a good base, but Jiu jitsu and striking are what make the sport.

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A good and smart wrestler will get the pass during the takedown. Thats why you rarely see Randy in the guard he almost always gets side control or knee on belly off of a takedown. Strikers and jiu-jitsu guys who let themselves be held down by wrestlers are missing the point too and are as much to blame for a boring fight as the wrestler holding them down.

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Originally Posted by VJ Bella

Funny...when i went to school the wrestling team was all the meatheads who weren't athletic enough to make the basketball team...lmao.

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Well, that's the opposite of most wrestling programs. Wrestlers in general are usually the most athletic out of school sports programs. When I wrestled we practiced 5 days a week for 3 to 5 hours a day on top of that we had weight training in the mornings before school, a duel a week (A team vs team match), and a tournament every sat. If we did poorly at a duel or tournament then we'd have a 2 hour midnight practice as punisment and we'd still have to be back the next morning for weight training. The guys who played basketball were no where even close to the same level of athleticism that the wrestlers were on.

To me boxing,muay thai,and jiu jitsu are like pieces of cut out paper u need to glue on a biger piece of paper (MMA) and wrestiling is like the glue!!!

A wrestlers base and body awareness is a very important tool to have. I may be biased (midwestern Wrestling family,the only sport in the house growing up)but it saved my ass in the begining stages of comp. Combining that with the other skills is huge. Plus what you said free training, experience, and more mat time. Dont see any down sides.

What about mma for wraslin'?
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