Problem With Bottom Guard Offense

I have a few months of experience training 10th Planet. I have the Twister DVD and book as well as both Rubber Guards. 6' 6" 180 lbs, rather flexible, but not super strong. I have found very good success with 10th Planet, especially the Rubber Guard, Lockdown and Twister side control. These techniques help to me completely obliterate my fellow Krav Maga students on the ground, which is good for all of us.

When rolling the other day, I encountered someone who would sit postured up in my guard with one palm on his forehead and he would dig the elbow of that arm HARD into my solar plexus. It is very uncomfortable and painful after a while. I can deal with the pain but it completely shut down my offense, I was unable to break his posture down into Mission Control and it created so much space for him to work. I tried to get the arm off of his head/my chest but he was stronger than me so it was to no avail. He then used his opposite arm to dig his elbow into the fleshy part of my thigh and passed into half guard. To top it off, when I applied the Lockdown, he slipped right out because he was wearing those swishy athletic pants on!

My question is: Is there any other way to combat this palm on the forehead elbow in the chest technique other than overpowering them? I do not feel an armbar from guard is a good response when the person on top is stronger because they have a lot of control as well as the strength advantage.

Use a palm thrust and "pump" like move with your legs and hip out a little to your side so that elbow slides off your body. You should then be able to take his back. OR shoot in the deep hook and swim move to spider web. His arm is already near your center line, the swim move is similar to swim move from RG.

A deep hook and transition to spider web is the way to go, with him bringing his own arm to the center line. But another very effective solution is to arm drag and work to his back, reach your opposite arm to the back of his tricep and then shrimp out to the side exposing his back. The key is not to try and pull the arm across but rather make sure his arm is stuck then move your body

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Originally Posted by Greg W

Use a palm thrust and "pump" like move with your legs and hip out a little to your side so that elbow slides off your body. You should then be able to take his back. OR shoot in the deep hook and swim move to spider web. His arm is already near your center line, the swim move is similar to swim move from RG.

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must have been writing our reply's at the same time lol


Edit: i'm very slow at typing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greg W

Use a palm thrust and "pump" like move with your legs and hip out a little to your side so that elbow slides off your body. You should then be able to take his back. OR shoot in the deep hook and swim move to spider web. His arm is already near your center line, the swim move is similar to swim move from RG.

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this is some good advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mick Broster

must have been writing our reply's at the same time lol


Edit: i'm very slow at typing

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Ha, must be pretty near right on If we both said the same thing!!

deep hook all the way. The guy must think this is a good idea because the pain compliance has worked on a lot of guys. But if I tried this, my team mates would rip my arms off. I mean seriously, pumping the arm to my centerline is usually the toughest part for me to get. This guy is pretty much doing 80% of the work for you. Hahaha. It might be uncomfortable, but keep attacking with that deep hook and he'll get the picture that his move is a bad idea. It's just like when guys dig their elbows to break guard. A few triangles will break that habit.

Hahah I see everyone's saying the same thing.

Greg W, I like that sort of arm drag suggestion, too.

Thank you all so very much! I appreciate everyone taking the time to offer suggestions and even though I will have to try it on the mat with a training partner tomorrow, I can already see the wisdom in the advice. =)

Sounds like he is doing 90% of the work for you for a traditional Triangle or an Armbar (depending on how you armbar).

Bridge up and pull arm forward. Trap the arm, lock his back in with one leg and transition to Armbar.

nothing more i can add, lock the shoulder , deep hook / armbar/spiderweb

If I'm visualing what you described right.

If he's in my gaurd with his palm on his forhead and the elbow driving downward into my solarplexis his arm is already halfway across the center of my body. Im would push it the rest of the way across and take his back.

Lot of diffident good advice above. I rolled with mostly way bigger guys, I'm 155. If you really want to break him down and use rubber guard good advice above. I personally have better luck working from what are traditionally thought of as more dominant positions so I'd be trying to escape or get to butterfly and sweep but thats just me and I'm a newbie.

No matter how you look at it, you are pretty much going to capitalize on his arm being on your center line and make him pay. You'll have to stay calm though the discomfort and not try to muscle your way to the next micro step. With bigger guys crushing you in any way it seems like you just have to rock and wiggle until you get them to slip up. Just dont try to stay there and weather it cause it will wear you down, but you cant power your way through ether so you have to capitalize on their mistakes and they wont make any without movement, so even if its just to keep things moving try rocking and moving your hips. If you are twisting your body toward the same side you are trying to push his arm toward, it will help it slip off your chest, dont be flat.

Zombie or any swim type move to pretty goddamn hard to do when a guy has 20-40 lbs of muscle on you, got to be fast and then capitalized on before they just battle back.

In my stoned imagination it goes like this; Im being smashed in the solar plexus by some gorilla, it s really uncomfortable, actually it hurts a lot but i dont entertain that thought.
His right elbow on my solar plexus, his right hand on his forehead.
I wiggle and work trying to get to my left side while grasping his right wrist with my left hand (softly), as I get to my left side a little more he's really digging into my solar plexus to stop his elbow wanting to slip off. And now I don't care about applying something a little hard to make it work. Make it a two on one hand fight by palm striking his right wrist with your right hand while pulling with your left hand, trying to get to your left side as you drive his right arm back, setting up a figure four. Trick is switching to both hands, pushing the right arm back and then plunging your right arm behind his right tricep fast as hell! It might lead to a sweep or at lest will let you get to your side and out from under the elbow. I count my victories against big guys in tiny increments like that.

that's right I said palm strike.