Got yelled at for pulling off the twister

So I train gi, I'm fairly new and when rolling I was rolling against a guy with my experience. I had his back and was trying to set up a RNC or Collar choke but he had his arms tucked and in Trex position making chokes and armlocks difficult.

I've been watching a lot of tutorials by Eddie and the Korean Zombie on setting up the twister so I thought it was a good time to try it. I took my one hook out and put him in lockdown. I pushed him away snatched his arm and put it behind my head. Just as I was about to grab him his and apply it my instructor was yelling that "WE DON'T DO THAT, NOBODY SHOWED YOU THAT WE DONT TEACH THAT IN THE GRACIE NETWORK, WHY DONT YOU THINK FIRST. pretty much embarrassing me in front of the class for trying to be creative and try new things... I wasn't gonna rip it as hard as I could... The same as I'm not gonna rip a kimura as hard as I could when rolling.. I would have eased into it with contious pressure until he tapped.

Was it unfair for him to do that or just?
Either way there's a 10th planet school about a 20 min drive further and im seriously considering going there. Only reason I haven't is this one is a bit closer and 5 of my friends go to it opposed to 10P.. Plus a bit further drive (not much though).

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Originally Posted by gatorrrrrrrrr

So I train gi, I'm fairly new and when rolling I was rolling against a guy with my experience. I had his back and was trying to set up a RNC or Collar choke but he had his arms tucked and in Trex position making chokes and armlocks difficult.

I've been watching a lot of tutorials by Eddie and the Korean Zombie on setting up the twister so I thought it was a good time to try it. I took my one hook out and put him in lockdown. I pushed him away snatched his arm and put it behind my head. Just as I was about to grab him his and apply it my instructor was yelling that "WE DON'T DO THAT, NOBODY SHOWED YOU THAT WE DONT TEACH THAT IN THE GRACIE NETWORK, WHY DONT YOU THINK FIRST. pretty much embarrassing me in front of the class for trying to be creative and try new things... I wasn't gonna rip it as hard as I could... The same as I'm not gonna rip a kimura as hard as I could when rolling.. I would have eased into it with contious pressure until he tapped.

Was it unfair for him to do that or just?
Either way there's a 10th planet school about a 20 min drive further and im seriously considering going there. Only reason I haven't is this one is a bit closer and 5 of my friends go to it opposed to 10P.. Plus a bit further drive (not much though).

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take the extra 20 minutes and go to a moon

I'm sorry to hear about that Gator. I would go to a school that is the closest fit. It was sort of wrong for him to do that. But your new so he has no idea your experience or temperament. Neck cranks can be brutal if ripped. Might have been a knee-jerk reaction on his part. Him being an instructor of a certain background he likely had to say something in that regard. Is he Brazilian by chance?

Yeah he's Brazilian. No need to yell in front of 20 people... Let me know afterwards, none the less why suppress a valid submission?

What's the gym's policy on neck cranks?

Whenever I join or visit a gym I literally ask the head instructor what submission they allow during live rolling.

I don't think there is one... Or is but was never aware of

Tough to say then. If they've banned all neck cranks then I can understand your instructor getting upset. If he was yelling out of defense of the curriculum without regard for the cranks then it's kind of lame.

I mean it's his gym and he obviously gets to dictate how things will work on his mats and I respect an instructor's need to control behavior on the mats. However, for me that wouldn't fit with my view of grappling as a whole and I don't think I could continue training there if my instructor was just trying to pigeon hole my game down one path.

I'd make the trip to the Moon too. Not even worth fighting the dude.

At 10p north, we have a few students who started cross training with us because their traditional curriculum school only had 1 or 2 nogi classes a week, and they wanted additional nogi mat time. They quickly started advancing in skill past their classmates in their gi classes, and when using 10p moves would be criticized for using 'American jiujitsu' and eventually kicked out of their school, being told 'here or there but not both'.

I think in alot of cases, its just the instructor wants their students in the same classes to all be learning the same things, and progress at the same level. They have defined curriculum they have determined as what they feel is the best way for people to grow and learn. If they are only teaching new white belts how to break guard and take/defend positions, and MAYBE a triangle and armbar, and dont want them doing any flashy subs or be distracted other than JUST focusing on the basics over and over till they are more than bored. And when people start to bring stuff in like leg locks and other flashy jitsu, other people get excited and play around with them, there's less focus and desire on the fundamentals and a higher risk of injury to new students. People developing at their own pace, on their own, and this both goes against their 'plan' and makes the instructor feel like he has lack of control.

Regardless, there no need for him to try to make an example of you and flame you infront of the class... Is this about following a curriculum, or you growing as a grappler to your best capacities? it sounds to me like you would thrive at a moon compared to this school... 10p is all about growth, trying new things, and nobody at 10p will EVER yell at you for anything unless you do something stupid like try to hurt someone or something that warrants it...

The big issue of what you wrote is accurate, is that they are close minded and I would GTFO of that school right away and make the extra 20 minute drive, and convince your friend to come with you.

This:

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WE DON'T DO THAT, NOBODY SHOWED YOU THAT WE DONT TEACH THAT IN THE GRACIE NETWORK

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is lame.

If you have a 10th Planet moon that close to where you are already travelling to, you should be going there IMO. There are guys all over the world that WISH they had a 10th Planet moon that close within reach of them.

As far as non-10P schools go, we have a Gracie affiliate in my hometown that our 10P guys are not welcome at, even to casually train. They don't like 10P practitioners because our coach dominates them on the mats. I will let Stew expand on that if he feels like it.

If they understand the twister, there's no reason to yell. My guess is that they're terrified of spine locks cuz they don't understand the twister. You're not going to paralyze someone by accident with a twister. They'll tap before then.

If you can afford the 20 minutes, it's worth it to do what you love. You'd be surprised to hear how many guys drive an hour or more to get to class.

We have a guy Justin Harter drive 45 mins one way to train with us almost everyday. Truly dedicated killer. Moral of the story go to the moon. Which moon is it? Jw

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Originally Posted by DanConway

When using 10p moves would be criticized for using 'American jiujitsu' and eventually kicked out of their school, being told 'here or there but not both'.

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By that logic, then shouldn't it be called Mexican Jiu Jitsu? Because BJJ was made by Brazilians, and in this case 10P was made by Eddie who is Mexican..(Right?)

Anyway to the matter at hand, it sounds like your instructors mind is narrow. Last time I check, its called "Jiu Jitsu" so it shouldn't matter where it came from, because its a JIU JITSU class! So he had no right to flame you...Everyone is right though...You probably should head to a moon...So put on your astronaut gear, and get yourself a rocket. :D

If you can't drive there, try walking..Its far I know..But I'm planing on doing that to get to a JJ class since I have no one to train with currently. :)

Not trying to play devils advocate, but the twister is an illiegal move in Gi because of safety concerns, just as you are a white belt so therefore can not do heel hooks in gi as well. I always ask the instructor of whatever school I am visiting about what submissions I am allowed to do to avoid that ackwardness. I also have a 10P patch on my Gi pants so the teacher will usually tell me up front no twisters, electirc chairs etc beforehand but if not then like I said I will ask. It isnt always about the hate for the system all the time. These guys are can be liable for injuries even with a waiver so they do not want anything risky done by us white belts.
I do agree he should'nt have yelled at you in front of the class and instead just told you right then you can not do twisters and then explained rules of his gym for your belt level. You can always get to the position without touching the neck for the actual submission and transition into something different so you can at least get reps doing it, but let your teacher know first so he doesnt scream at you when he sees you going to it. That way he knows you wont be actually trying the submission but just getting to the move and then moving on so no chance of injury. At one school I go to electric chairs are not permitted so I just go to the sweep without attempting the sub, you know when you have it anyways so better to keep the roll going.
I do agree with everyone though if you want to do 10P submissions then the best thing is to visit a school, I try to go to SF as often as possible, but somehow have them all done on me instead of me doing them ;)

Again, anyone terrified of the twister doesn't know it too well. I see whitebelts pull off twisters every so often in my school. No one ever got paralyzed. Mainly because we're not retarded and don't crank like we're in abu dhabi.... also because the spine is more resilient than you think. Watch some of Master Eddie's matches where he's practically tearing a guy apart with twister. No paralysis. It's not as dangerous as people think.

Heel hooks and toe holds are more dangerous than twisters. You need a lot more torque to break a spine via twister than you do to tear a guy's knee apart or break an ankle.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

Watch some of Master Eddie's matches where he's practically tearing a guy apart with twister.

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Can these be found on youtube?

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

If they understand the twister, there's no reason to yell. My guess is that they're terrified of spine locks cuz they don't understand the twister. You're not going to paralyze someone by accident with a twister. They'll tap before then.

If you can afford the 20 minutes, it's worth it to do what you love. You'd be surprised to hear how many guys drive an hour or more to get to class.

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Fuck Ben drives 1.5hr to class and he averages 3x a week.

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

Can these be found on youtube?

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Yes. Theres a couple old school highlight reels

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Originally Posted by gatorrrrrrrrr

Yeah he's Brazilian. No need to yell in front of 20 people... Let me know afterwards, none the less why suppress a valid submission?

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I can see why he reacted that way. Only because as you stated youre just starting off. Eventhough you are a smart grappler and werent just going to snatch it and rip his head off, hes probably seen a number of injuries from newbies getting ahold of something and just going balls to the wall. I know ive seen it especially with leg locks. Just stopping the match would have been sufficient but he was probably reacting out of fear of seeing another injury.
That being said I would evaluate whether this gym is going to give you what you want. If you want to be able to apply submissions like the twister, which is a legit sub, I'd look elsewhere.

the twister can be used in high school wrestling

my son (when he was 11) got kicked out of a traditional bjj school for training 10pjj

about 13 yrs ago when i owned a bjj school and had a brazilian black belt instructor/partner, he would always say things like thats not jiu-jitsu or that move is grosso (meaning just mean and dirty, not technique) to any move that wasnt in his arsenal

moral of the story, go to a different school

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

Can these be found on youtube?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FPAC...e_gdata_player


Check 7:55. Eddie was practically ripping the guy in half. That guy's not paralyzed. If he used that much torque on a heel hook, he would've turned that foot 180 degrees and ripped the knee to shreds.

His commentary was hilarious too. The whole vid is worth a watch if you haven't seen it.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Fuck Ben drives 1.5hr to class and he averages 3x a week.

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Yup. I thought I had it bad taking a 30 minute walk home. Then he's like, yeah, I'm about an hour away. I'm like GEEEEZ! That's serious love of the game right there.

Ben is like and 1.5 away, Sarkis is almost an hour.

Damn Sarkis too? Geez. Excuses are looking weaker and weaker.

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Originally Posted by Brent Smith

Yes. Theres a couple old school highlight reels



I can see why he reacted that way. Only because as you stated youre just starting off. Eventhough you are a smart grappler and werent just going to snatch it and rip his head off, hes probably seen a number of injuries from newbies getting ahold of something and just going balls to the wall. I know ive seen it especially with leg locks. Just stopping the match would have been sufficient but he was probably reacting out of fear of seeing another injury.
That being said I would evaluate whether this gym is going to give you what you want. If you want to be able to apply submissions like the twister, which is a legit sub, I'd look elsewhere.

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+1, that guy almost ripped my knee out that one day remember.

Well I just recently moved so it'd be 10p Sherman I believe

[QUOTE=Ron Almeida;141135]the twister can be used in high school wrestling
Technically true, even though H.S Wrestling has become more like patty cake making figure 4's and clamps illegal in most situations.
I always thought the twister looked familiar to me the first time I saw it, it is basically a wrestling move called the guillotine just pulling more for torque than to pin your opponent. Either way I love it!

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Ben is like and 1.5 away, Sarkis is almost an hour.

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I'm a 1 hour & 20 minutes one way & that's speeding on the Thruway. Winter will make it a much longer ride.

You know, many of my students drive at least an hour to get to training at 10th planet Melbourne and none of them have ever complained about it once, and then I have some dudes that live literally a few blocks away and hardly see them.

The truth always comes out as to who really wants it more, and funnily enough, the ones that travel most are my top guys so go figure.

Similar thing happened to me before during my first month at my BJJ academy.
I was pulling of Twister whenever I had chances and in the end my instructor forbade me from using it saying its an illegal move plus it can really hurt someone if you're not careful.
My academy trains both gi and no-gi but we have some restrictions.
We're not allowed to use heel hook, twister, neck crank (unless its a neck crank from d'arce and anaconda) and so on.
I'm not allowed to pull of twister when I'm rolling with lower belts but I'm allowed to pull it of against higher belts.
As far as I know, most academies don't allow you to pull of twister or any other spinal locks cuz they think its really dangerous unless its a MMA gym or one of the 10th planet gyms.

Go to another school.

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Originally Posted by Psylo

Either way there's a 10th planet school about a 20 min drive further and im seriously considering going there.

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So did you and your friend end up switching to the 10P moon yet?