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Anyone else get panic attacks while rolling. I get them when I am rolling with heavy guys. Like 220lbs. If I'm fresh no big deal but if its at the end or I just had a battle and I'm spent and they get north south and just look to hold it...I start to freak out. If I don't tap irrational fear sets in. Sometimes I tap just to get out even though I'm in no danger. Anyone else have to deal with this?
I have a training partner who has that issue, so if you figure out anything that helps you please let me know so I can pass it on. It happens to him frequently when rolling with me (250 lbs) or another person of similar weight (180 lbs) if he is really tired.
Not really the rest of us here are all ninja type and we never get tapped or stressed..lol. Not really just have fun doing it. I just smile and give my partner a high five when I get tapped.
I used to get them when I couldn't see while rolling. As mean as it sounds, the way my coach broke me was by not stopping if I tapped to a non submission
them moments when youre dead tired is when you can take your jiu jitsu to the next level, you wont have the energy to muscle an escape, so you better do the escape technique perfect. I always roll till its time to leave, even after getting trashed, every sub we are right back at it less then 5 secs later.
I have a 60 year old guy who had horrible panic attacks and bad claustrophobia a year ago. I have no medical training other than some combat medic classes, but here's how we fixed him. I first started him with shrimps and top control positions 1-4 ( head and arm, modified kesa, far arm control, twister side to mount). At first I let him use an old canvas punching bag and adjusted his position. Then he'd run through them on me. I'd hover above him and run my reps. He could go about 30 seconds for a few weeks. I slowly started pressure and increased over time. Anytime he'd start a panic attack I'd talk to him and assure him he was ok but eventually held position. He loves rolling with tennis balls to work his position and pressure. We've done that for about a year and a half now and now rolls with anyone through the door and hasn't had an attack in months. Not sure any of that helps but hopefully.
It's totally mental. Isuddenly feel like I can't breath. I started getting them when my mom died from cancer 2 years ago. I get them at night too but can calm myself through meditation techniques. Much harder to do when I'm also trying to keep a skilled heavyweight from squashing me. Sometimes I give a sub just to get out from under because it's not claustrophobic defending an arm bar or a back attack. Which I've become quite good at defending both so silver lining... lol
A lot of people will tell you to let yourself get put into bad positions, and practice escapes, and working your way out. One thing I've done is let myself get put into bad positions, and then force myself to relax. Just accepting the position, defending subs, and surviving, but not working to escape. I always have the mindset that 1) it's just a game, 2) It's temporary, 3) I'm OK!!!!
My wife, on the other hand, has panic attacks and claustrophobia issues on the mat. It's something she struggles with. I always try to remind her, it's only temporary, everything's ok! It's tougher for her to relax in these positions.
I have panic attacks before tournaments - puking, crying, shaking, the works. Then I step onto the mat and blackout like Will Ferrell does in Old School when he's on the debate team. When I rewatch my matches and look at my face...looks like nobody's home. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etBRqzt7OqY
That has happened to me. I just try to breathe through it and bait them to move so I feel less claustrophobic
I used to get freaked out in bad situations when I first started. I would purposely put myself there if I were you. Learn to breathe, don't panic. Life is going to pressure you, can you handle it? Jiu Jitsu teaches you to handle pressure, to not tap to pressure. Feel your way through it. It can be scary rolling with bigger guys. Trust me, I'm 120lbs. We have guys 2x + Bigger than me. I roll with all of them. Sometimes I have a terrible training session, in some people's opinion, but hey if all you do is work on your defense and polishing some escapes while you're tired...that's a great session. Stop thinking, just feel your Jiu Jitsu. If you get tapped, so what. We're all a team. Sometimes we all get the better of each other. That's how we grow though. IMO.
Those of us that have panic attacks know it's a whole different level than just being tired and stuck under someone. It's a uncontrollable overwhelming sense of doom. You suddenly feel like you're going to die. I've been trading jiu jitsu for 6 years and train 5-6 days a week... most days completely cool stuck on my back but 1-2 times a month out of nowhere my psyche decides to funk me. I have no ego so I tap let my partner know it was because of a panic attack, slow my breathing for a minute then go back to rolling.
Never had a full blown panic attack, but i do know what its like when your trapped under someone and cant even choose your head direction and then you start getting the lactic acid building up in your muscles and its super frustrating
Me, 2 hours from now. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Brick
Joey Diaz has been having the exact same problem, he is going to a shrink for it so maybe we'll see what she says. (the shrink)
Not 2 make light of it,but...http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
I had a chance to roll with Marco Costa a few weeks ago. I am not claustophobic in any way at all. I can handle heavy pressure from heavy guys no problem. But one thing I do do that is wrong, is I start to muscle. I do that because I am just learning, so I don't have a massive databank of techniques to draw from yet, so I start to try to use muscle in the hopes of creating space to get an elbow or a knee in, etc.
When I rolled him, it was like a steam roller. Constant pressure all over me. I was defenseless. At one point he had side control and I couldn't budge an inch. I started to try to muscle my way out to slip in a half butterfly or whatever. I tried puching him up or off or away, tried shrimping, just tried anything. I exhausted myself.
He said to me afterwards:
"Relax. When someone has you in an uncomfortable position, with your head forced to one side and weight on you or whatever, just relax. They may have you in a position that is not comfortable, they may have you in a spot you would rather not be, but it's not over. They don't have the sub. They are waiting there because they don't have the sub. Relax and try to look at the fight from the outside, try to see little things you can do to force them to move on to another position, and that is your chance to recapture control."
That is obviously paraphrased, but it was something to that effect.
It stuck with me.
You are suffering from anxiety. Weed can help. I have a friend who was on prescription drugs for years. He started smoking weed, and slowly lowered his dosages of the pharmaceuticals. He weened himself off them and used weed for a few years. Then he weened himself off weed. He has grips on it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinculp
Go to your happy place...
You say you get them at night (Which is very common). Is there anything else in your daily life that triggers the panic attacks? Have you seen a psychologist about these panic attacks? Are you currently taking any medication for them?
I suffered from panic attacks for about 6 years, from 13 years old until I was nearly 20. Mine started out from a bad experience with marijuana (Go figure ;P) since, as it turns out, I'm hyper-sensitive to THC. Anyways, my 13 year old brain wasn't prepared for the hallucinatory effects it had on me, and I suffered PTSD from the experience (Which I kept hidden for two years). By the summer of my 15th year, the panic attacks had gotten so bad I became both claustrophobic and agoraphobic--I couldn't leave my house or even enter my bathroom without having a panic attack.
I went to therapy and started on Paxil, and began the rough process of re-acclimating my mind to everything it mistook for panic-inducing.
The keys to a therapy regiment is controlled exposure to the stimuli that causes the attacks, slowly increasing the length and intensity of exposure over time, discovering and confronting the root of your mental disorder, and, of course, emotional support. Drugs can assist if the stimuli is too difficult to interact with, but it is not a substitute for therapy.
What I'd recommend is talking to some of your training partners about this and recruiting them to help you as follows: Roll as usual with them to the point of fatigue, then switch the roll intensity to more of a hybrid flow style--Have your partner's start in top position and maintain good (Though not crushing) pressure, but do everything slow and controlled. In fact, I'd probably start with them just maintaining a top control position that troubles you, and allow them to do simple transitions while you just focus on breathing, relaxing, and if possible, simple defensive posture.
During this process, it's important you try to not tap out. If you run away from the problematic stimuli, you're only negatively reinforcing the panicked reaction you feel--Keep in mind, though, that everyone is human. Sometimes the stress will be too great and you have to stop. For these situations, I'd have a simple code with your training partners to tell them when to ease up, and when you need to stop entirely.
Another thing to keep in mind is this: Most panic disorders operate as a feedback loop. That is to say, when you first begin to experience panic symptoms, you will immediately remember the sensations of previous panic attacks. This will fill you with immediate terror and dread, and in turn, will feed into your current panic attack, making it worse. It is important, when having panic attacks, not to focus consciously on the immediate symptoms you are experiencing (Trouble breathing, rapid heart rate, dread). If you do, you'll only enhance the feedback loop and worsen the panic attacks to the point of debilitation. This is much easier said than done. The art of not acknowledging your panic symptoms takes a lot of practice and experience, but the only way to develop the skill is to expose yourself to the problem stimuli and make the conscious effort to relax. Everybody has different methods of doing this (Personally, I have to close my eyes and listen to something engaging, like a conversation or a television show), so just try everything to see what works. You're situation is a bit difficult in that you are limited in your possible responses (Since you're grappling), but that's no reason to give up!
For reference, I thankfully no longer suffer from panic attacks, even off my anti-depressants (Though I've had to restart them after a long hiatus due to depression). In fact, I haven't had a panic attack since the tragic Boston Marathon bombings, though that was for personal (And legitimate) reasons. Like BJJ, the key to therapy is putting in the hours on the mat. :)
I developed copping techniques and can meditate or refocus at night and almost never even have problems at night. But because I am claustrophobic and the main trigger is a feeling that I can't breath when those worlds collide under a smasher sometimes my Jedi mind tricks just aren't strong enough with the force. I'm a zen Buddhist so not big on drugs or doctors. Though the fear or panic is intense it is very brief and most of the time I either work a little harder to improve postion or I just tap and play my top game which is pretty good so easy to stay out of the danger zone but I like to play z guard so I just deal when it's time to panic. If I would just eat right and breath more while training probably wouldn't even be an issue but I tend to grit and grind when rolling... old wrestling habits last 4 ever lol
I wasn't aware of any aversion to western medicine on the part of zen buddhist. I know other forms of "buddhism" have medical traditions that involve using the dharma to promote healing but Im not aware that they resist modern medicine. TIbetan buddhist certainly do not, the lamas own brother has seen psychiatrist in a professional context.
I could see argument being made based on the use of animals in medical research but by the same logic this would precluding them from enjoying most modern technology as someone or something has suffered in the process which led to the technology.
From the four noble truths,
Know the sickness,
Abandon the cause of the sickness,
Aspire the cure and
Rely upon the medical treatment
Gautama buddha spoke using medicine in analogies sometimes and I feel this confuses some people on the topic. He was saying that the dharma can be looked at like a medicine and Sangha as doctors. He was making an analogy of spiritual healing in terms of medical healing. He also did discuss that medical healing has psychological components for the patent but never says that doctors have to be able to address both aspects, rather the patent must be aware of accepting their disease and embracing the medical treatment as also curative for the nonphysical aspects of the disease (although this maybe indirect often)
In tibetan buddhism (and others to a lesser degree) the sciences are expected to be pursued by those wishing to become enlightened,
The science of medicine
The science of logic
The science of language
The science of art
The inner science of mental training
Medicine as we think of it (western) was actually fairly advanced in terms of surgeries and such because of this thinking, before western contact.
Im Bipolar with an anxiety disorder, so just stepping on the mats is a battle for me. Sometimes the fear is there but its usually for me before I roll, once I get going I usually forget about all that.
Also its about having great training partners that understand what you go through, I know my coach and partners make it easier on me.
Way to wordy Aaron...lol just kidding. My approach and understanding of Zen is to avoid mental suffering imposed by desires and attachments. So when I speak of avoiding Doctors it's only as an expression of that. If I truly need one I would be grateful for there ability. But since I know why I have panic attacks and embrace them as a part of me I feel no need for help. I brought this up so others would also feel free to share.
Pulse for me to even label myself Zen shows my limits lol
That's cool Aaron...love talking religion. Was getting my degree in Humanities back in the day when I thought I wanted to be a teacher. I always leaned more towards the crazy hermit monks than the traditional temple monks. For me Zen was a tool to use to free yourself from the baggage you don't need. If you group up than you behave just like every other religion. The greatest aim should be cultivating ones ability to live in the present moment. Chanting and ritual seem unnecessary and pretentious. But that's OK for those that like it. Just not my bag lol
Dude, have you been to the doctor? My friend had the same situation and one day his airway closed because of the panic attack and we had to call an ambulance... Now he is alive and all is well with him, as Amitriptyline pills that doctor said to take help him, that's why he orders it from worldpharm365.com almost about for a year and he feels better. Moreover, he says that these pills are great if you take them before going to bed, as it perfectly relaxes the muscles and mind, and he says that the next day he feels energized and clear thinking, so it helps him to win fights in sparringQuote:
Originally Posted by kevinculp