The war in Iraq is over THOUGHTS?

[Kevin Green]

These countries have been modern educated societies. Iran was a democracy until the United States helped place the Shah in power. Extremism arose as a result of the suffering the people experienced under his rule.

Iran endured further horrors during the Iran/Iraq war. A war in which Saddam Hussein had the support of the US, even while Saddam was using chemical weapons.

The damage is done and it is not lost on them who did it. Everyone in Iran knows whos fault it was they lost their democracy and had it replaced with a dictator who messed up their country. All the people that live there have ever known is dictatorship, horrific was and sanctions. That ill feeling spreads.

So Tim, what are your thoughts about Iran and their nuclear weapons program? Masked for 20 plus years as a program to look for "alternative fuel sources". Granted, in the past (not recent past) the did not produce enough to arm a weapon, but you have to admit, very slick as a way to educate yourself and learn the process to inevitably (as we see today) use that training to create larger quantities.

[Kevin Green]

This is probably the most dangerous misconception of all. We have no bank roll left. We are thoroughly in debt and we will never be able to repay it. Continuation of these wars on the level they are now surely means defaulting on our national debts. We aren't just continuing, we are escalating. We are pushing into Pakistan more and more. Watching Fox and CNN lets me know that we'll be in Iran at some point (probably before the 2012 presidential elections). Not to mention the Iranian scientist that was apparently kidnapped by the CIA... The supposed "draw down" in Iraq is complete bullshit. It is not happening and will not happen. People will be relabeled and the ones that are actually removed (if there are any) will be exchanged with civilian contractors.

As a "troop" I like the sentiment of "supporting the troops." I also hate it. We are ultimately responsible for our choices. Following orders is not an excuse for prosecuting an unjust war, if a soldier (sailor, airmen or marine) determines that it is unjust. At that point, they should start preparing their resume for when their contract is up. Also, the "support the troops" logic is what allows us to be so well funded and funding the war is essentially voting for it. So if you tell your politicians that you want them to support the troops, you are basically telling them to vote for the war. You may want to express your thoughts more succinctly than with a yellow ribbon magnet... not trying to be a dick. We do appreciate the thoughts. We also appreciate discounts (that's all I'm saying ).

The other thing is that many people think something along these lines: "they hate us because of our culture and our freedom." That is absurd... that is not the motivation for any terrorist attacks/attacks in general against US forces/civilians. In nearly every case, some group claims responsibility for the attack and gives their motivation. I suggest you hear their words. Not one of them is out there saying, "Brittney Spears is a ho and we just can't take your debauchery any more so we're going to blow your shit up." Usually, it goes a little like "quit interfering in Muslim lands" or "your sanctions are killing us."

So we should just all question, do we need to have armed forces all over the world? Don't just think about Iraq/Afghanistan. Think about Germany, Italy, S. Korea and Japan. Think about South/Central America. Wouldn't we be much safer if we didn't go out causing problems and instead had the most technologically advanced military possible sitting right within our borders. How much safer would we be if we could afford our expenditures and were not careening down the path to hyperinflation.

I deal with GOV contracts and money everyday....we have the bank roll...trust me. As far as national debt goes....what happens if its not paid off, they gonna cut off our power and evict us? But I see your point, we do spend money we dont have....and we spend (on average) 7 times more omoney on our Military then any other country

[ifreez]

they need a War to boost this crappy economy

This is ever so interesting because the right has propagated it as common knowledge, when in fact it is a myth.

It's worse than the elephant in the room that people won't talk about; it's indicates the power of political propaganda (which is vastly a right wing strategy, that renders folks who rely on first contact information to not question the simple ABCs of a proposition). It is the elephant in the room that we don't even notice.

The answer here is too simple, but the scary part is we live in a society that when it comes to politics, we don't stop and say, "wait a fucking second!?". The idea that war stimulates the economy started with WWII, because at that time, it did. Since then however, it has done nothing but increase the debt and the deficit, as the Iraq war will testify. Debt and deficit, as some would argue, are not good for any economy.

[Kevin Green]

I suppose Iraq just stank of false pretences. Im not anti war at all. You will get no protests from me. Theres a mess now, and I guess it must be cleaned up.

From a non military perspective, the list of interference in the middle east is a long one, and repeatedly ends in tears.

Slightly unrelated, but maybe not.

Immediately after 9/11, the French President Jaques Chirac stood up and said that France had never had anything to do with Terrorism etc etc. This was viewed dimly by those New Zealanders who remembered that the French Intelligence blew up a ship In Auckland Harbour, New Zealand in 1985 killing a photographer. The two agents were caught immediately.

New Zealand just had to lump it. What were we going to do? No one else seemed to care either. We are just a small country after all.

Well, (despite the anti-US sentiment from those you spoke about earlier) I care. I served with lots of good folks from all over and coalition is coalition...but please dont get me started on the French

[ifreez]

As far as national debt goes....what happens if its not paid off, they gonna cut off our power and evict us?

No, but the greenback will lose its value against other currencies, as it has since 2004/5, and the US will see other emerging economic powers decend like a tidal wave, like China.

[Kevin Green]

This is ever so interesting because the right has propagated it as common knowledge, when in fact it is a myth.

It's worse than the elephant in the room that people won't talk about; it's indicates the power of political propaganda (which is vastly a right wing strategy, that renders folks who rely on first contact information to not question the simple ABCs of a proposition). It is the elephant in the room that we don't even notice.

The answer here is too simple, but the scary part is we live in a society that when it comes to politics, we don't stop and say, "wait a fucking second!?". The idea that was stimulates the economy started with WWII, because at that time it did. Since then however, it has done nothing but increase the debt and the deficit, as the Iraq war will testify. Debt and deficit, as some would argue, are not good for any economy.

I have to say for one, I am pleasingly suprised at the intellectual conversation of this thread...

I also agree with you.. The day of the "military Industrial Complex" have come to an end and do not boost the economy as they did in the past. The "Prison Industrial Complex" however is alive and well. Politicians use the threat of "crime: and the solution of "more prisons" and "more and stricter law and sentencing" of non-violent offenders as the"solution". Sorry about all the qutes
That being said, the "war on drugs" and the "three strikes your out" rule are perfect examples. Again our fears or spun by the 1% of America that owns the media and political agenda.

But I disgress...Im interested now to see what you all feel about the Mosque being proposed for construction near the 911 site in NY. Anyone?

[Kevin Green]

No, but the greenback will lose its value against other currencies, as it has since 2004/5, and the US will see other emerging economic powers decend like a tidal wave, like China.

Which will bolster their ability to become a "super power" and increase their Military spending and turn them into the "worlds police", no? Problem with that is, we (US) consume and make like 80% of the worlds garbage. We are a hot bed for other countries to export, sell, sell....Our control over import tax has more power then one would like to acknowledge. China (or any country for that matter) can not chance the loss of the revenue the US creates for them. Its a catch 22...

[Tim Elliott]

This is ever so interesting because the right has propagated it as common knowledge, when in fact it is a myth.

It's worse than the elephant in the room that people won't talk about; it's indicates the power of political propaganda (which is vastly a right wing strategy, that renders folks who rely on first contact information to not question the simple ABCs of a proposition). It is the elephant in the room that we don't even notice.

The answer here is too simple, but the scary part is we live in a society that when it comes to politics, we don't stop and say, "wait a fucking second!?". The idea that war stimulates the economy started with WWII, because at that time, it did. Since then however, it has done nothing but increase the debt and the deficit, as the Iraq war will testify. Debt and deficit, as some would argue, are not good for any economy.

It stimulated Americas, but it didnt do the economy of the British Empire any good!

Also if the rest of the world is pissed at you, they dont buy your stuff.

[Kevin Green]

It stimulated Americas, but it didnt do the economy of the British Empire any good!

Also if the rest of the world is pissed at you, they dont buy your stuff.

We dont buy our own stuff My car is from japan, my computer and phone are from China and my luch was from Korea

[Tim Elliott]

The issue with Nuclear Weapons is not about people having them. Its about motivating them not to use them.

America might need to learn to say sorry.

How about lifting all the sanctions and working on opening lines of trade? Nothing dampens religious ferver and rampant extremism like soft living and consumerism. People are less inclined to make a habbit of plotting when they are fucking round on an Iphone or discussing deep international issues on a Jiu Jitsu forum at 2:58 in the morning.