IBJJF rules and the Jiu Claw

[Diogo Trigo]

The thing is that it's the guy on bottom who has to have the guard in order to sweep. For instance, closed guard sweeps straight to mount. Sweep points. Mount sweeps back into closed guard. No points. Because on the second instance the "sweeper" does not have a guard.
Being so, even if jiu claw counted as a guard (I don't really know if it does) it doesn't really matter if you go from top side to jiu claw and get swept, because if it were a guard it would be your guard, not the guy on the bottom. He never recovered guard and hence will not get the sweep points.

That being said, I'd reiterate that this is IBJJF, I am really not sure what the rules are for NAGA, but I suspect they're similar, if anything you'll get the points for going for a submission.

[Chris Herzog]

Naga rules are not the same as IBJJF. They most definitely won't count Jiu Claw as a submission.

[Nick Birring]

Thanks for the info man... I was thinking of something along those lines as well.. Although in competition I have never received passing points for sweeping from the Jiu Claw to side control... I also thought maybe as Chris said above because you are technically giving up a dominant position it would still count as a sweep..

Yeah it's weird, because if you sweep straight to mount, you get accumulated points. Some refs will, some refs won't. Typical refereeing standards haha.

[Brian Debes]

Your not getting sweep points in either organization if you go straight to Jiu-Claw. You SHOULDN'T give up points doing it either, as long as they don't escape it and get on top. If you initiated it from a dominate position (not their guard) they can't get sweep points even if they do come on top when escaping unless they pass too. If you did it on top from their guard this is deep gray area but I would expect the reff to give them points if they come up though I have seen refs score this sort of thing different ways.

In NAGA, you can get sub attempt points for this. If you ask a NAGA reff they will ussually tell you its one point for what we call jiu-claw when you explain it to them and two for after you sit up. However, it is my experience, having competed in a LOT of NAGA's that you get no points until you sit up, even if the reff you asked about it early and who told you different is the one reffing your match.

Oh, also note that IN THE GI NAGA does use an almost IBJJF point structure. What I'm calling "NAGA rules" is a completely different point system which they use for no gi only.

There is no point system in the world that you don't see arbitrary enforcement on by the way..