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  1. #21

    Array

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    10th Planet Winnipeg
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    627
    If he is doing it to master this move and every set-up and escape counter and then move on to master other stuff thats one thing.

    If he is doing it because he likes winning easy thats another.

    Training like this can be double edged

  2. #22
    Chris Herzog's Avatar
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    10th Planet Rochester
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    Rochester, Ny
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    Absolutely nothing wrong with what he is doing.
    Check out my instructional website:www.zogipedia.com



    Head Coach 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu Rochester www.10thplanetjiujitsurochester.com

  3. #23
    sean applegate's Avatar
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    10P Gulf Shores, Atlanta, Atmore
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    gulf shores, AL
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    He's doing just fine. You guys need to step it up. He needs you guys to step it up. Idk what you guys think about after you leave class....but for me, it would eat me up that there is such a hole in my game that this guy could just run through me with the same thing over and over. You guys need to shut him down. It will help your game as well as his. Arm bars are defendable. Ankle locks are defendable. Does he smash your instructor with these techs?

  4. #24

    Array

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    Head instructor 10th Planet Mobile
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    Mobile,Al
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    3,644
    He's good.

  5. #25

    Array

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    10th Planet Hamburg/ Ronin
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    Dunedin New Zealand
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    881
    i personally think that theres nothing wrong with it so far. by the look of things he is trying to get to the same place everyone else is. ie being a perfect jiu jitsu fighter, but he is going down a slightly different path. you wont get to black belt by only knowing two subs nor will you get there knowing a hundred subs that never work. im definitly a ver general fighter when i roll, but im trying really hard to become specific and only focus on a couple of subs. if you can sub anyone with a move then imo you can roll a lot more relaxed because you know that you always have a hidden weapon ready to use. its like in mma when a guy is so good on the ground, he can let his hands go and do things others might not because he doesnt mind going to the ground.

    aside from that, if he is killing in comps then good on him.

    the problem will be if thats all he is does. if he never looks to learn any other move and get it up to that level or even if he only ever learns one or two ways into the sub then he will reach point where people will defend better than he attacks. hopefully when he gets there he will move on to something else.

    bruce lee said (atleast something like) "I do not fear the man who has practised 1000 kicks once, i fear the man who has practised one kick 1000 times"

    i just hope he doesnt get bored and quit. if a guy is doing well enough to beat all these people then he might make something out of himself with it.

    and my last worry is that he is using a bit of technique but does he use a lot of strength as well, cos that could point to him that he doesnt have as much technique there as you might think. when he gets iit on a brown or black belt his size, then u know its definitly legit

  6. #26

    Array

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    10th Planet Ventura
    Location
    Los Angeles
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    210
    People who complain about ankle locks tend to limp a lot.

    Counters aren't nearly as efficient as avoiding getting caught in the first place. You can say that about every submission but this is especially true of an ankle lock. If I can wrap my arm about your ankle, you are likely in some serious trouble. Change your game so that you are not leaving your feet out there like an early Christmas present. I started doing ankle locks when everyone at our school started playing open guard and leaving their feet near my hip. A lot of the early Z guard players made similar mistakes. If you insist on giving them the foot, well of course he will take it.

    I remember one training partner asked me not to do ankle locks because he ankles were sore. No biggie but then every time we rolled he had a reason for me not to do ankle locks, which really pissed me off when he then proceeded to take advantage of the armistice by playing an open guard that repeatedly left his feet on my hips. If you don't want to get ankle locked, don't play a guard that leaves you feet open.

    You must change your game when you realize that the person you are rolling with wants to attack your feet. That's also why every gym needs at least one person like your friend to keep everyone honest. When you learn how to cock block his ankle locks, he will be forced to learn how to pass. That will make him truly dangerous because most people bring their feet back out to prevent the pass - and that lets him hit those ankles again. I almost never hit ankle locks the way I did when I was a blue belt because no one leaves them out there for me anymore. I have had to develop new approaches.

    Eventually your friend will start mixing it up himself. I realized that ankles get sore pretty fast and after the first two on each foot (per partner), people are tapping very quickly because their ankles are already very sore. So I try to cap it at two per foot per partner. Then I work other aspects of the game.

    Ankle locks are an expansive area of study so focusing on those will not be a waste of time. There's so many directions you can take that aspect of your game. In my case, I started mixing it up by changing angles and playing with my hand positions. All most all of my current ankle locks are finished one-handed. Then there's correcting a bad ankle lock and learning how to ratchet up the pressure so that your opponent is convinced you can actually break his ankle. Stuff like that.

  7. #27
    Brent Smith's Avatar
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    10th Planet Jiu Jitsu
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    Medford, OR
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    5,810
    Quote Originally Posted by scottross View Post
    People who complain about ankle locks tend to limp a lot.

    Counters aren't nearly as efficient as avoiding getting caught in the first place. You can say that about every submission but this is especially true of an ankle lock. If I can wrap my arm about your ankle, you are likely in some serious trouble. Change your game so that you are not leaving your feet out there like an early Christmas present. I started doing ankle locks when everyone at our school started playing open guard and leaving their feet near my hip. A lot of the early Z guard players made similar mistakes. If you insist on giving them the foot, well of course he will take it.

    I remember one training partner asked me not to do ankle locks because he ankles were sore. No biggie but then every time we rolled he had a reason for me not to do ankle locks, which really pissed me off when he then proceeded to take advantage of the armistice by playing an open guard that repeatedly left his feet on my hips. If you don't want to get ankle locked, don't play a guard that leaves you feet open.

    You must change your game when you realize that the person you are rolling with wants to attack your feet. That's also why every gym needs at least one person like your friend to keep everyone honest. When you learn how to cock block his ankle locks, he will be forced to learn how to pass. That will make him truly dangerous because most people bring their feet back out to prevent the pass - and that lets him hit those ankles again. I almost never hit ankle locks the way I did when I was a blue belt because no one leaves them out there for me anymore. I have had to develop new approaches.

    Eventually your friend will start mixing it up himself. I realized that ankles get sore pretty fast and after the first two on each foot (per partner), people are tapping very quickly because their ankles are already very sore. So I try to cap it at two per foot per partner. Then I work other aspects of the game.

    Ankle locks are an expansive area of study so focusing on those will not be a waste of time. There's so many directions you can take that aspect of your game. In my case, I started mixing it up by changing angles and playing with my hand positions. All most all of my current ankle locks are finished one-handed. Then there's correcting a bad ankle lock and learning how to ratchet up the pressure so that your opponent is convinced you can actually break his ankle. Stuff like that.
    I became very conscious about my long distance half guard because of the fact I kept getting ankle locked. Now I pay special attention if they start to search around for my ankles. I've been tapped from much lower belt levels because I was being lazy with my feet. Lesson learned pretty quickly. I hate the idea of saying, "hey dont attack my <insert injured limb>". I'm just quicker to tap if it ends up being attacked and do a better job of avoiding that limb being attacked. Its just training and I'm just there to learn.
    #10thplanetFREAKS

  8. #28
    Aaron Gustaveson's Avatar
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    10th Planet Grants Pass
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    Humboldt County, Ca
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    2,131
    Quote Originally Posted by sean applegate View Post
    He's doing just fine. You guys need to step it up. He needs you guys to step it up. Idk what you guys think about after you leave class....but for me, it would eat me up that there is such a hole in my game that this guy could just run through me with the same thing over and over. You guys need to shut him down. It will help your game as well as his. Arm bars are defendable. Ankle locks are defendable. Does he smash your instructor with these techs?
    +1

  9. #29

    Array

    School
    Combat Society
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
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    344
    He's doing just fine. You guys need to step it up.
    You're right. We all need to realise specialist like this are in comps and we've gotta figure out ways to shut them down. If I can defend myself against a purple belt specialist, I should be fine against people in my white belt division. It's good for me.


    He's good.
    Yeah, he is. Grappler's Quest Europe blue belt absolute champion.

    Does he smash your instructor with these techs?
    Good question. Answer: no. Our instructor never lets him control his sleeves or ankles and passes to a more dominant position without exposing himself (from what I've seen). I understand this is the thing to do, but I'm not skilled enough to do it yet.

    Oss.

  10. #30

    Array

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    Ronin (10thP Rochester roots)
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    Boston, MA
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    4,002
    Quote Originally Posted by Pan View Post
    Thanks again for all the input. this is a fairly typical example of him rolling in class or competition. There are lots more videos of him on the same youtube channel:



    I'm not asking for ways to beat him or anything and I do ask him how he got me, but with me it's usually dumb stuff I'm doing i.e. letting him control my ankle or arm for too long. My leg lock defense is poor and he exploits it, as he should (assuming he just wants to win and get another rep of the setup and finish - or maybe he wants to show me how vulnerable I am.) I'll keep drilling it and be glad I get tested on it so often.




    I agree with this and it's what made me ask you guys about it. I'm sure it's awesome for his development of those two finishes and the paths there, but the rest of his progression must be suffering. Do you try to avoid doing the things you're already good at to work on new stuff? Do you polish the killer weapons? Bits of both?
    Is this him? From the looks of it, he WAS trying something different, but the other guy just gift wrapped his ankle with a nice little bow and handed it to him.

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