Kron Criticizes Gracie University

[Ross Davidson]

If you can't take the heat in a 'start from standing' competition, how will you take the heat in a life or death situation?

[jkenneth]

This is a great video and is very candid when it comes to the mindset of the Helio lineage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS2NfEYs5JM

Also this interview by Chris Brennan is very eye-opening regarding Rorion and the Torrance academy:
http://www.global-training-report.com/chris.htm

[jkenneth]

Eddie is in good company though.
Helio wouldn't acknowledge or accept Rolls' advancements much the same as Royce, Royler etc. won't accept Eddie's now.
History repeating in a way.

[Isaac Atley]

one thing that ive noticed in my skillset. i live in a place with a low level of belts, ie highest being a purple belt who jacked his legs and cant roll anymore. long story, different time. the rest being white belts and a couple blue belts that arnt amazing either. i regularly smash these guys because they all do white belt reactions, they all go for white belt submissions. i know that they will go for armbars from ful guard and americana from side and rnc from back. no variations to speak of, just explosiveness and strength. then we had our black belt instructor come back from brasil, . another long story different time. and i rolled with him and funnily enough he dominated me. he used capoiera passes and a large variety of attacks and defenses. im happy to say i got a fly over pass on him.

what im getting at is that, if the only person you train against is a white belt, you miss out on at least half of your game. not only does it slow your learning down, it stops it in some areas. training online is a step below that in that these guys are generally both beginners. training online should supplement training in real life, but real life needs partners that are better than you as well, not just partners equal or worse than you.

ive only had rare occasions to roll with brown or black belts and i can tell it stunts my game and its something im really not happy about. but anyway different perspective on the whole debate, personally i like online stuff, helps evolving the sport. and if rener can be believed then the new version of GU blue belts will be more well rounded and legit. i doubt it will be 100% but still its better than people not training jiu jitsu at all.

[Wancarlos]

Eddie is in good company though.
Helio wouldn't acknowledge or accept Rolls' advancements much the same as Royce, Royler etc. won't accept Eddie's now.
History repeating in a way.

Yo bro, I had a long list of crap to talk about from those amazing vids man. Thanks for sharing them. I have felt that Carlos's sons, minus mcdojo-ism, are far better than the "Top Branch."

I agree 1000% with your observation of history "rhyming" in a sense. Where innovation and desire to advance the art in aggression and athleticism is being stunted by the sons and students of those who tried to do it to Rolls.

[Wancarlos]

one thing that ive noticed in my skillset. i live in a place with a low level of belts, ie highest being a purple belt who jacked his legs and cant roll anymore. long story, different time. the rest being white belts and a couple blue belts that arnt amazing either. i regularly smash these guys because they all do white belt reactions, they all go for white belt submissions. i know that they will go for armbars from ful guard and americana from side and rnc from back. no variations to speak of, just explosiveness and strength. then we had our black belt instructor come back from brasil, . another long story different time. and i rolled with him and funnily enough he dominated me. he used capoiera passes and a large variety of attacks and defenses. im happy to say i got a fly over pass on him.

what im getting at is that, if the only person you train against is a white belt, you miss out on at least half of your game. not only does it slow your learning down, it stops it in some areas. training online is a step below that in that these guys are generally both beginners. training online should supplement training in real life, but real life needs partners that are better than you as well, not just partners equal or worse than you.

ive only had rare occasions to roll with brown or black belts and i can tell it stunts my game and its something im really not happy about. but anyway different perspective on the whole debate, personally i like online stuff, helps evolving the sport. and if rener can be believed then the new version of GU blue belts will be more well rounded and legit. i doubt it will be 100% but still its better than people not training jiu jitsu at all.

I think by your account above, you define the problem with GU altogether man.

[rickdawson]

Alright Guys... this is probably going to piss some people off, but guys taking classes under Gracie U may not have the same opportunities that you guys have... Right now, I live in SoCal... I'm in a position where I get to train at HQ Mondays and Tuesdays, Renato Laranja on Wednesdays, Teach my own Gi Class on Thursdays, and take Karen Darabedyan's class on Sundays.... I have a pretty amazing life when it comes to Jiu-Jitsu.

However, if you are in the middle of the sticks and have a few buddies that want to learn Jiu-Jitsu... but there isn't so much as a purple belt in your area... what is the problem with going the online route? If you're just a hobbyist and have no intention of ever winning a world championship or even competing in general...Then what is the issue?

[Charles Wilhelm]

When I first started training jiu-jitsu, it was a traditional japanese style which I invested 2.5 years in. During that time, I discovered BJJ because I was looking online for better, more effective techniques than those taught at my school. I left my traditional school to train at a typical BJJ school for a year. That BJJ school had a core group of techniques called the progressive guard, which was what you spent all of your class time learning, except when the instructor was showing a new technique to the whole class. Once the lesson was over, you may never see that technique instructed again. If you missed that class, you would have no idea that the technique even existed.

I have been training at a Gracie Certified Training Center for almost a year now, and I can tell you that some of the people I train with are extremely dedicated to BJJ. At my previous BJJ school, you had two or three 1 hour classes of BJJ per week, that's it. At my Gracie CTC, we routinely put in 3 hours a night, several nights per week. Also, having access to the entire curriculum online is a huge advantage. I can spend as much time as I want developing my understanding of techniques, though I will obviously have to drill them relentlessly afterwards. This is not to say that the GU system is perfect, even for people like me who have access to instructors. There are still flaws in the system, but I wouldn't even consider leaving this system to train at another average BJJ school.

To make a long story short, I agree 100% that two guys learning from GU online and never exposing themselves to other people's styles, techniques, reactions, etc, is better than nothing, but far from perfect. However, there are guys in the GU system who go to every class, dissect every technique, analyze the videos, polish their game tirelessly, and are true jiu-jitsu scientists. These guys win tournaments, gi and no-gi. I think the bottom line is, you get out what you put in.

TLDR: GU isn't just two white belts alone in a basement imitating Rener. Also, effort in = reward out.

[David Rosado]

From my own experience, videos are great. Some of my high percentage moves come from youtube. But actual mat time with higher belts is a WAY better teacher than videos and rolling with guys at your level.

Just last week I was able to put together a few nice things and I felt pretty good about myself. A couple days ago I rolled with only higher belts and felt lost. But I learned a lot more in my recent rolls than I learned from getting taps. Not just that, but you get more reps under an instructor. You have the instructor fine tuning your mistakes to make you better. These are things videos can't do for you.

That's why I'm not anti video. I'm not even anti video rank (blue only). But I am anti cultish teachings that only your way is the right way. I'm anti traditionalism and idolatry. I'm anti ranking guys basically because they bought your product. I'm anti giving guys a false sense of security because they know how to upa....almost.

I appreciate what Rener and Ryron are doing to bring awareness to BJJ. But I also appreciate Kron's criticism that they're handing out happy meal belts too freely. I feel that it de-values bjj to a certain extent. But then again, BJJ as a community does it's own quality control and the mats don't lie. You can wear a red belt but if a white belt still taps you, we know where you're really at. So I guess in the end, it doesn't matter THAT much.

[David Rosado]

However, if you are in the middle of the sticks and have a few buddies that want to learn Jiu-Jitsu... but there isn't so much as a purple belt in your area... what is the problem with going the online route? If you're just a hobbyist and have no intention of ever winning a world championship or even competing in general...Then what is the issue?

The issue is when they talk about the "Helio Gracie" filter and indoctrinate people to believe theirs is the only right way. Other than that, it's all good. Evan Tanner became a UFC champ based off of watching instructionals. Nothing wrong with wanting to learn BJJ and make the best of a bad situation. But keeping a closed mind is no good.